Reason updates (11.3.7 / 11.3.8) and Reason+

[MarzT]

I'll wait til Apr. 27, the last day, then take my 1 year at 50% and see how much it's *worth it* - worst case a year later, i cancel and still keep what I own. No brainer.

[Catblack]

The "what's the fuss, it's just a bonus option" gang seems to have missed the point completely. After years spent on the RRP detour with the DAW being already years behind competition at that point, RS decide to just ignore their community and waste yet another year on NOTHING for the core users.

I know this is a long thread. This does seem like a large part of it. Reason Studios simply spent a year trying to figure out how to squeeze more money out of users rather than making the core DAW better. We need it better 2 years ago!!!!

All I use Reason for these days is just hitting record when I fire up my eurorack. There's better options for that. Ones that don't require me to log in online to use.

I do feel sorry for the people who subscribe to Reason+. They'll lose the ability to open their song files when they move on from it, whereas I, owning a license, can open files I made 20 years ago.

[vertibration]

I subscribed, then unsubscribed because I dont see the value yet. I want to wait till Reason 12, then I will buy reason 12 upgrade, and if I see an intrument I like, I will just buy it.

As a license holder, I just dont see value in a subscription. Good for new users low on cash, not so good for vets

[miscend]

I said it wasn't the first motivator. It was obviously a motivator, but the idea that Reason Studios exists only to make money is really dismissive of the meaning of music.

I agree they wanted to make something awesome. But to do that as a business entity you need to be profitable, as businesses exist to make profit. There are other types of corporate forms (such as charities) for organizations that exist for other purposes. Reason studios being profitable as a business while also being honest and ethical does not demean the meaning of music.

The way capitalist society works, is that when you spend the time doing something and its really awesome, you get rewarded financially for your efforts. Now that doesn't work for all things which is why governments and other institutions will often sponsor the arts. In the old days musicians and artists often had rich patrons to enable them to chase their dreams.

[Aosta]

A massive issue that is not being addressed by them is the online only one,

From their R+ blog announcement:

'No matter where or how you work, we got your back. All the new stuff we make you get access to immediately.'

That's not exactly true is it?

Want to take your laptop out into a field on a summer's day and make a lovely ambient track...nope you are screwed.
Want to mess about on a car journey or travelling on a train or plane...nope you are screwed
Want to finish a track while your broadband is down....nope you are screwed.

[avasopht]

A massive issue that is not being addressed by them is the online only one,

From their R+ blog announcement:

'No matter where or how you work, we got your back. All the new stuff we make you get access to immediately.'

That's not exactly true is it?

Want to take your laptop out into a field on a summer's day and make a lovely ambient track...nope you are screwed.
Want to mess about on a car journey or travelling on a train or plane...nope you are screwed
Want to finish a track while your broadband is down....nope you are screwed.

They've already said they're working on it.

[OverneathTheSkyBridg]

The more I think about it the more I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m done with Reason.

I’m on R11 and will continue to use Reason as a plug in on a more capable DAWs but they are not getting any more money from me.

This is where I'm at now at this point. I've got R11 Suite and tons of 3rd party REs. I don't feel bad at all about being a long time contributor to PH's / RS's companies. These are great products, and I have everything I need to make great music for the foreseeable future. I don't feel like existing users have been ripped off in any way, but I'm not very optimistic about the direction the company is going. The live stream is really telling in this way, especially as the comments went by I noticed the nervous glances from everyone involved.

The only people I actually feel bad for in this whole thing are the 3rd party developers who have dedicated themselves to this ecosystem, and I'm glad that I've been a part of contributing to them along the way. Ochen K called it, and I'm seeing other devs in this thread expressing these concerns. I don't see the RE ecosystem as being viable for them going forward. I'm not sure how much of a cut RS takes from their sales, but they'd likely make a lot more money going the VST route. And now that they've been sidelined in favor of the in house subscription route I'd be taking my ball and going home if I were them.

Someone earlier in this thread said it best: Reason 12 - Last Chance. I totally agree, this is likely going to be a make or break release for the existing user base that has felt neglected. Like I said above, there's plenty in Reason 11 to make great music with. Maybe it's time a lot of us concentrate on that end of our efforts. RS should at least make the Suite option available again for those of us that want it.

Wishing everyone the all the best!

[moneykube]

Maybe they'll add R+ to the Rewards section. I mean why not combine the two best ideas they've had to date?

They've already said they're working on it.

never heard that a hundred times before... oh wait... I did

[Kalm]

well that escalated quickly

[SuryaDnB]

I do feel sorry for the people who subscribe to Reason+. They'll lose the ability to open their song files when they move on from it, whereas I, owning a license, can open files I made 20 years ago.

This should be the most important reason not to go subscription. I don't want to be forced to pay them money after I decided to stop using Reason, to open old project files.

[jlgrimes]

Serious question.....was there this much of an uproar when Presonus introduced Sphere? Or was it less of an uproar because S1 tends to implement workflow improvements more often unlike RS.

There was some noise. Everybody fusses about subscriptions. The fact that it came along with the new Version 5 release might’ve softened the blow a little, but they also don’t have the fan base Reason has. Reason fans treat Reason like a significant other and feel cheated on when a new feature isn’t aimed at them.

“How dare you give some other user what they want and not me”

We’re a unique community

Sphere wasn't promoted that heavily. Presonus promoted the Studio One 5 upgrade and the Sphere as an enhancement to that.

The users who wanted core DAW upgrades got it with 5. The users who were interested in Sphere signed up.

There wasn't much prehype either. I remember just waking up and seeing, oh a new version of Studio One is out.


I think RS makes a big prehype of something big. Then introduces a subscription model with downloadable presets. This would obviously get alot of people spirits down who was hoping for Reason 12 or a GUI update. Also subscription plans are a pretty polarizing issue in the DAW world. Some people are fine with them, others try to avoid them.

Reason 12 (or minor release with significant updates) + Reason + introduced together would have softened the blow.

[avasopht]

They've already said they're working on it.

never heard that a hundred times before... oh wait... I did

The ReGroove redesign never happened, but it's highly unlikely that this isn't a top priority.

[NostraDAWmus]

I voted,- guess what ?

Subscription biz models and cloud,- not for me !

I´m never online while doing audio/MIDI work, use the Phead dongle.
Didn´t even install latest update.
Is it worth to do ?
Does it improve/ fix things/ bugs

I´m unable going thru 50+ pages of this thread ...

Do we get updates & bug fixes for Reason 11 in future and even not subscribing to Reason+

Where can I download latest RSN 11 installers to archivate



P.

[Melody303]

I was pretty vocal in the livestream's chat, but the majority of that was fielding questions. Much more than asking them.
It's not cool that the livestream was spent on chitchat and answering questions that were already answered in the FAQ, and while I sympathize with the positions the staff found themselves in, the feigned enthusiasm on display was hard to swallow.

My least favorite part of all of this is the current reasonstudios website and how far away it shoved the store, and if Reason Studios will be returning here to answer questions as promised on the feed, I'm really anxious for the answer to the question of when the store's link will be returned to its prominence from before the announcement? The justification that you want to celebrate and promote the new paradigm does not excuse it. You can do both simultaneously.
The way you're currently alienating 3rd party RE developers is unacceptable.

I have no intention of trying out the subscription, but I suppose I'll be forced to soon, even if merely for the sake of trialing the next major update.
I'm much more likely to consider it if the paradigm shifts to some form of Rent-to-Own. The Rent to Own paradigm is another thing I wanted to bring up during the stream, but didn't because I knew you would spin/dodge it, no matter how I phrased it (and indeed you did when the question finally did come up in the stream) There is absolutely no way in which a subscription is better than renting-to-own. No advantage whatsoever to the clients, no matter how you try to spin it. And of course if $20*12 isn't enough to cover all the products included in the service, I don't expect you to cover the spread in the cost, but give the customers credits to actually get what they want (to own) The fact it keeps developing and getting more is not an issue. "Easier and simpler" - Come on now.

But I have to admit that if worse comes to worst and subscriptions will be the only option to keep using Reason, I will be among the subscribers, as Reason is just too essential for me, no matter how much I dislike their recent strategies. (Actually, that's not the worst, it's still one step removed. The worst would be if Reason dies off completely.) It's a good thing I'm happy with Reason 10 and the Rack Extensions I own, and am not personally missing all those features that keep getting requested.

[MFW]

I subscribed, then unsubscribed because I dont see the value yet. I want to wait till Reason 12, then I will buy reason 12 upgrade, and if I see an intrument I like, I will just buy it.

As a license holder, I just dont see value in a subscription. Good for new users low on cash, not so good for vets

That's the exact thing that makes me think RS will stop the license version, and force everyone onto the sub model.

Would love to hear RS's logic behind this. A $20/month sub isn't going to create a massive influx of either new income or new customers.
There's a number of reasons that Reason is at its position in the marketplace, and cost isn't one of them.

If they think pissing off their license holders with this shit in the vain hope they're going to strike a mother lode of new money is gonna work.... good luck with that.

[groggy1]

There's one thing I didn't understand (and maybe it's somewhere in this 50 page thread but I couldn't find it sorry )

The blog says that if you're on the subscription you get features FIRST.

I totally get that you'll get new REs first. And sound packs first.

But does it mean that in the future some FEATURE (let's say "track folders") would be available to subscription folks immediately, but NOT be available as a dot-upgrade for folks that bought Reason12 (or latest version?)

I.e. will non-subscribers have to wait longer for actual features?

To the question above, I actually got two different answers:

That seems highly unlikely. I think they meant first in the sense that no one else gets them earlier. But anyone else who buys the upgrade separately will also get it "first".

Yes, that’s one benefit of being a subscriber. I think the days of free point updates with new features are over. Bug fixes will probably be separate and I assume those would still be free including non-subscription users.

I would figure that if you outright buy Reason12, then any new features that come out until Reason13 would be given to you for free, and delivered on the same exact day as folks that are signed-up for subscription get it. Once Reason13 comes out, if you choose NOT to buy it, I imagine you stop getting new features. So pretty much what stp2015 said. But who knows for sure?

[Timmy Crowne]

The thing that is making all this so distasteful to most of us is the timing. Had RS first shipped a "catch-up" Reason 12 release with:

Hi-res graphics
Revamped sequencer
Modern browser
VST3 and VST MIDI-out
Combinator 2
Track folders
Video import

Most of us here would have praised RS for listening to the community. I would have gladly signed up for the subscription, even though I don't need any of those sound packs: "These guys did such a stellar job bringing Reason up to date, I'll sign up for Dirty Lo-Fi Chill Vibes Vol.3. because now I know they're listening."

Instead, we've been told the next version is going to have hi-res graphics and maybe possibly some 'other cool device... um... y'know... gotta be coy... wouldn't want our competitors to know our next move, a move they did 10 years ago.' Very little info. Yet, we're getting plenty of info on payment plans. They've given us a very clear picture of how we're supposed to pay, but no clear picture of what product we'll be paying for. And of course, by "we" I mean those of us who already own a license.

[Stamatz]

I believe this is just an option moving forward to us R11-Suite users, there will still be a R12 BUY option but no suite, not sure what it will or will not include as it hasn't been announced yet or did I miss something? We can speculate for the next 50+ pages what the future holds and what the new team really cares about, to me it seems pretty genuine but the message wasn't as clear and focused as it probably could have been. Maybe someone accidentally hit the release on the reason+ update and they got caught in a condundrum who knows. Point is the more users however they get it, the better for the whole ecosystem. They said we will still have an option to BUY R12 when it comes out so whats the fuss? I know, no suite but look at it this way R12 is suite, maybe there will be a R12(+) which can include added instruments...hint hint? How about R12 plus a $5/mth for + where it would include + products with a rent to own feature?. I'm a buy kinda guy, I like to OWN not lease things. Would you lease your keyboard or guitar? Seriously, I hope they succeed so we can possibly get to a R13(+)
Oh and for that guy who posted he's leaving and going to buy the hardware instead, hope you just hit that Powerball cause it's gonna take you a small fortune to buy all the devices which Reason offers in real life.
If you want more suggestions you know where to find me:)

[avasopht]

Would love to hear RS's logic behind this. A $20/month sub isn't going to create a massive influx of either new income or new customers.

It's $20/mo you can cancel at any time vs $400 upfront.

How many people spend $1500 upfront on their phone compared to $50/mo on a 24-month contract?

I've been on a PAYG contract since 2013, saving at least $100/yr by buying my phone cash.

I remember when those deals first came out. Initially, they were 1p upfront contracts. It's an easy sell (and that's with a 12-24 month contract).

If they think pissing off their license holders with this shit in the vain hope they're going to strike a mother lode of new money is gonna work.... good luck with that.

The people who are pissed off seem to mostly be pissed off by the presumptuous speculation that they are definitely going to stop full purchases with misconceptions on how Reason Studio's introduction subscription relates to Adobe's (who serves a very different type of customer).

[mravdirato]

The live stream showed nothing that we didn't already know. 3 men with a title starting with C asked two people to deal with it and the rest of us to suck it! We know what this business needs New cash.

I can think of a word starting with C for them.
We all need to understand that this isn't about identifying new cash flow streams but it is about 'democratizing music' as that CEO said...I mean even a person from Africa signed up to the FREE trial so that means even poor people can use the software now

I am one of those poor users before. 2013, I had a cracked Reason 5 and I was creating and messing with it for hours. 2016, I bought Essentials 8 with my hard-earned money from a measly college faculty job. 99 bucks was no joke but I had a dream of becoming a producer. Heck, 2 of my singles right now was made with Reason 10, and the license was not even mine. Until recently, I can't even afford Reason until Ryan gave me a free license because I went on the stream and told the truth. I literally cried in-front of my girlfriend. I am a broke producer, I am not ashamed. That's why I'm disgusted with some people that are complaining about the sub, when they have the full license themselves, complaining. I can't speak for everyone, but hey, some of us can't even afford it years ago!

I'm just gonna say this, if the sub isn't for you. JUST SWITCH. This is for those genuine producers who can't even get by, but now they have the chance to so so. Music is an expensive hobby and passion, there's no doubt about it. Think about the people who can't afford Reason but would want to start. Of course, they can try other FREE DAW'S that are out right now, but we can't just dismiss the people who really wants to make music inside Reason. Sure if they want to buy a perpetual license, they can do so when they're not struggling financially anymore. Music is for everyone, its accesibility also MUST be for everyone.

Some of us are all broke once. Come on, guys. Let's not see this only as a cash grab perspective. IMHO, I was sad when they announced this, but I truly went back when I had almost nothing, and my 2016 would've been so happy when the sub service happened. This is for the people who can't afford Reason upfront.

Have some empathy people.

[scotward57]

Seeing is believing!

I just watched the 1:44:50 comedy on YouTube. Reason Studios started off by making the bold claim that they were going to do a subscription model "the right way", which apparently means announcing a subscription plan without any new features....oh except the new Reason Device called TIP JAR.

It sits nicely in the rack. Instead of feeding it a virtual cable, you just have to give it $20 a month. What does it sound like? Cha-ching!!! It's a unique percussive sound!

Oh wait there's more. Sound packs baby! After all, why would I want to bother with sampling my own environment when I could collect the sounds of other COVID basement dwellers? Sounds like fun!!!! (it isn't)

[avasopht]

The thing that is making all this so distasteful to most of us is the timing. Had RS first shipped a "catch-up" Reason 12 release with:

Hi-res graphics
Revamped sequencer
Modern browser
VST3 and VST MIDI-out
Combinator 2
Track folders
Video import

Most of us here would have praised RS for listening to the community. I would have gladly signed up for the subscription, even though I don't need any of those sound packs: "These guys did such a stellar job bringing Reason up to date, I'll sign up for Dirty Lo-Fi Chill Vibes Vol.3. because now I know they're listening."

Instead, we've been told the next version is going to have hi-res graphics and maybe possibly some 'other cool device... um... y'know... gotta be coy... wouldn't want our competitors to know our next move, a move they did 10 years ago.' Very little info. Yet, we're getting plenty of info on payment plans. They've given us a very clear picture of how we're supposed to pay, but no clear picture of what product we'll be paying for. And of course, by "we" I mean those of us who already own a license.

Reason 11 was released in September 2019. There are usually around 18 months between releases, which would bring us into March-May 2021 at least for a Reason 12 release.

It's also a bit of a mistake to presume they're not listening to users. They do surveys (and lots of actual market research), so they've got a fairly good idea of what people want.

They've also implemented a lot of long-requested features. There was a thread on the PUF maintaining a list, and quite a lot of that list can be ticked off.

It does feel like they are dragging their feet a little though, but they have a lot of conflicting UX needs to resolve, and that can take time to get right. Chances are, any revamped sequencer is going to result in 100 angry users writing pages of rants about how the new sequencer is the WORST THING EVER!!! There were vocal complaints about even having VST support and the RRP. There will be complaints about track folders and video import from those who don't need it, and improvements to the browser from people who don't really care.

There will always be complaints. If you do 3 features and miss 2, there will be complaints. If you spend 5 years carefully implementing all 5 there will be complaints. If you carefully release and improve one feature at a time ... you guessed it, there will be complaints.

[delineation]

I hoped they where going to have another "Record" moment. Wherein a new "sidecar" or something next level would be introduced. Almost like an assistant engineer, or something nuts like that. Some speculating about users working together online in one file gave me hope. Honestly it seems like they're getting lazy. I upgraded to 11 and really haven't been blown away by anything. There really hasn't been much that couldn't have been taken care of with an update to me. The sequencer page has been languishing for so long and it would seem that instead of address it, they build a VST3 version of Reason so other DAWs could take care of the problem for them. Think about that. It was easier for them to make the whole Reason program into a VST format Reason didn't even recognize, and shovels the sequencing/ wave editing/ midi/ zoom/etc. on to their competitors. I have literally thought about getting another DAW just so I can have an easier time editing audio. Just giving their patrons to competition really. The fact that they made Reason in to a VST3 proves they can, and understand the format, yet choose to leave the format unreadable by that same stand-alone program. You got me, folks! 12 had better be a nut buster. A three toed demon sloth with wings and fire for hands! A massive synth studio pirate ship with the ghost of Bruce Swdine at the helm and crew of Herbie Hancock clones that all talk like Soundwave from Transformers. This next version better be like watching you love, you woman, the most beautiful person in you life give birth to a set of twin Jupiter 8's every day for a week, and she never curses your name once! Guys. Please. We, the Reason users/Propheads are simple with our requests. For the love of all things holy read the web. Read the forums. You CAN do it. We've been here this long. please don't make us wait much longer.

PS. not to derail, but has anyone ever used Harrison Mixbus?? Justt kidding. Peace and Love.

PSS. I was on the original Propellerheads forum when it was on their website and you could still get the RB338 Meuseum. I had at some point posted a fantasy. I mentioned that it would be "game over for the industry if they introduced something that can input audio to reason like a device and call it REpre, or something like that". That dream came true.

[avasopht]

... they build a VST3 version of Reason so other DAWs could take care of the problem for them. Think about that. It was easier for them to make the whole Reason program into a VST format Reason didn't even recognize, and shovels the sequencing/ wave editing/ midi/ zoom/etc. on to their competitors. I have literally thought about getting another DAW just so I can have an easier time editing audio. Just giving their patrons to competition really. The fact that they made Reason in to a VST3 proves they can, and understand the format, yet choose to leave the format unreadable ...

Turning Reason into a VST3 plugin is remarkably different to making Reason host VST3. They're entirely unrelated.

They, like any competent developer, can understand the VST3 format. Just FYI, Reason doesn't just "read VST", it integrates with it.

Any Reason user who used ReWire to use Reason with their other DAW, you better believe they highly valued that. I used to hate having to maintain a DAW and a Reason project file while only being able to use one instance of Reason with my other DAW.

[Faastwalker]

The feigned enthusiasm on display was hard to swallow.

It was utterly nauseating. I could only stomach about 5 minutes before closing he stream