System requirements ...

[ThisIsNotTheMusic]

So, I have a Surface Pro 4 i5 on 3 screens for Reason and I'm maxing out memory and CPU and songs are not just clicking and popping but actually almost grinding to a halt. This is for example with an 8 track mainly synth track. I had thought the device could handle it, but it's looking unlikely now. Can anyone recommend a good set up and some more realistic minimum requirements, as I don't want to have to deal with a device that's not up for the job. Thanks.

[pushedbutton]

General Advise..
[If you're using a lot of audio you need more RAM
if you're using a lot of other stuff, effects, synths and whatnot, you need a faster CPU
it's cheaper and more convenient to upgrade your RAM.]
Specific Advise...
[Surface pro 4 running 2 extra monitors is going to be a tad busy doing just that before you even load Reason, no matter what they hype says they are toy town clown shoes when it comes to media creation.
Upgrading it is probably not a feasible option, if you have the 4Gb RAM option, you've going to struggle a lot, regularly, 8GB is better but Reason would use as much RAM as you feed it.
Because the device is designed to be portable it's not going to be running at the clock speed of it's desktop equivalent.
On the bright side there is a way to get significantly better performance, this would be an external audio interface that is ASIO ready. Get a USB one so you can plug it in, there are plenty of options, they're pretty much all good.
Other than that, get a gaming rig built, pretty much any gaming rig and it'll be better than your tablet]

[ThisIsNotTheMusic]

Thanks for the advice. I was worried that would be the case. I will just have to dig into the home loan again.i am running a Scarlett AI and the weird thing is I have created and produced about a dozen songs of varying complexity and aside from some minor crackles and pops that do not transfer to the audio file when published, the set up was working fine until last night. Something pushed it over the edge. It's real disappointing. I have no choice though, making music has quickly become an obsession that I can't do without. Only wish I had started 10 years ago.

[syncanonymous]

I'm gonna agree with pushedbutton. I am using an old 2011 Sony VAIO VPCEB3J0E with an M370 2.4GHz on Win7. In the past month I have opted to go the upgrade route to cover me at least until next spring or so. I added a Samsung 850 SSD & upped the RAM from 4 to 8GB. The old HDD was acting up, so it was time to upgrade and WOW what a difference! Boot up and program loading times are ultra fast. The RAM, though is a fantastic improvement for Reason, I wish I could add more, but I am still on Win7. I can't believe I made the music I made the past 18 months with a spinning HDD and 4GB of RAM. I was getting computer too slow to play song & then would have to strip back tracks until I could work. Now I don't get any comp too slow dialogs on those songs. I haven't pushed it yet, but I look forward to testing.

Another MAJOR improvement I made was replacing the rock hard factory thermal paste with Arctic MX-4. The MX-4 is incredible. Cleaned the fan too while it was apart. personally, I had nothing to lose. It was either try and quiet the fan or take out a loan for a new machine. This machine whose fan was SCREAMING is now ultra quiet. Now I have replaced the Thermal paste with MX-4 on all of our ageing laptops and the improvement in is a bunch of very cool running machines.

Clicks and pops for me come from my wifi adapter. Turn it off in Device Manager & clicks are 95% less.

[Southgate]

You don't give your full spec...but snap! I assumed that the SP4 i5 with 8gigs would be enough to work with. My 5 year old i3 with only 4gigs was coping well (So why wouldn't the SP4 with a better spec?).

You can check out a few system tweaks here...

http://moltenmusictechnology.com/#section10

and also this informative video

To be honest I simply changed the Power settings in the Advanced Power Settings page and got double processing power and the pops and crackles disappeared.

Another setting that I fiddled with was the CPU usage / percentage to use in the Reason User Preferences menu. I used to set it to 100% but found if I lowered it slightly to 90% I got a better performance from Reason.

Of course a better soundcard or dedicated ASIO device would be preferable...but I bought my SP4 for on the go stuff and I don't want to drag extra gear.

Hope this helps somewhat?

[ThisIsNotTheMusic]

Thanks for that. I will try fiddling with the settings and see if that helps. I have 4gb only and it is always running at at least 3.9. It is the i5 2.4Ghz.

[ThisIsNotTheMusic]

Thanks for that. I will try fiddling with the settings and see if that helps. I have 4gb only and it is always running at at least 3.9. It is the i5 2.4Ghz.

Tweaking does not seem to help. Back to plan A

[jonheal]

My CPU is a magnificent Core 2 Duo. Cower before it mere mortals!

(Still on 8.3)

[SonicDreamer]

Does your i5 have Multitreading? If so, turn it of in the BIOS and try again. I did only this with my old i7 and it now performs outstanding. Reason does not use Multitreading (virtual cores) efficiently.
Eben

[ThisIsNotTheMusic]

Does your i5 have Multitreading? If so, turn it of in the BIOS and try again. I did only this with my old i7 and it now performs outstanding. Reason does not use Multitreading (virtual cores) efficiently.
Eben

Any tips on how to do this? I have no idea where to even start looking. Google isn't helping. Everything else I have done has achieved nothing. I can still start creating a new track, but anything with say 3 or 4 combi's in it is just frying everything. Not fun.

[jengstrom]

He meant to say HyperThreading, not multi-threading.
If you don't get to BIOS/EFi setup, or don't see an option, just ignore it.

What sample rate are you using? (Preferences -> Audio)

Have you looked at the CPU usage in Task Manager as it "grinds to a halt" like you report?
Is the CPU fully loaded? Are all cores loaded about the same or how is the load distributed across the indicators for separate cores in Task Manager?
If not, it could just be issues with the audio driver.

[Ostermilk]

You'd think throwing more power at the problem would cure all but the chances are if you can export a project faster than realtime with no issues in the bounced audio then the chances are you are not lacking in power for the project at hand but in realtime processing performance. A gaming rig might cure it but it may make matters in terms of being able to process audio in near time a great deal worse.

The reason being is that it's your machine's ability to run at your selected buffer size in near realtime without interruptions rather than it's brute force capability that should take priority. More RAM will rarely ever hurt though.

The suggestion above to do with setting the power plan is a good one as the system stops monitoring itself worrying about CPU states and just gets on with the job at hand, device drivers as well are common culprits that can negatively impact on 'real-time' audio performance. Video cards, audio cards, networking (especially wireless) and USB ports can all affect DPC performance too.

You can use this tool to help find likely causes of problems with your hardware setup to mitigate any issue you might be having with any rig great or small.

http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

[Ostermilk]

He meant to say HyperThreading, not multi-threading.
If you don't get to BIOS/EFi setup, or don't see an option, just ignore it.

Exactly, turning off Hyper Threading on a processor designed with them isn't likely to yeild any benefit in the overall scheme of things anyway.

Reason's 'real-time' performance has worked fine for me over the last five years with Hyper Threading on or off but it definitely performs better on it's non-realtime functions such as stretch and export with it turned on if the chip supports it.

[ThisIsNotTheMusic]

You'd think throwing more power at the problem would cure all but the chance are if you can export a project faster than realtime with no issues in the bounced audio then the chances are you are not lacking in power for the project at hand but in realtime processing performance. A gaming rig might cure it but it may make matters in terms of being able to process audio in near time a great deal worse.

The reason being is that it's your machine's ability to run at your selected buffer size in near realtime without interruptions rather than it's brute force capability that should take priority. More RAM will rarely ever hurt though.

The suggestion above to do with setting the power plan is a good one as the system stops monitoring itself worrying about CPU states and just gets on with the job at hand, device drivers as well are common culprits that can negatively impact on 'real-time' audio performance. Video cards, audio cards, networking (especially wireless) and USB ports can all affect DPC performance too.

You can use this tool to help find likely causes of problems with your hardware setup to mitigate any issue you might be having with any rig great or small.

http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

I have enabled the power setting to high performance but it achieved very little if anything. I ran the software and got the all clear. I'm a bit confused about using a gaming rig. I need a solution, and had assumed greater CPU and RAM using decent components would do the job ...

[ThisIsNotTheMusic]

He meant to say HyperThreading, not multi-threading.
If you don't get to BIOS/EFi setup, or don't see an option, just ignore it.

What sample rate are you using? (Preferences -> Audio)

Have you looked at the CPU usage in Task Manager as it "grinds to a halt" like you report?
Is the CPU fully loaded? Are all cores loaded about the same or how is the load distributed across the indicators for separate cores in Task Manager?
If not, it could just be issues with the audio driver.

Buffer size 44,100, pretty standard I think. Yes, I went to the CPU useage first up, and it maxes out intermittently, 75 to 98 % range when it is struggling with the track. When I play a simpler track CPU is at around say 40%, and occasionally I will hear some fuzz and pops and at that point the CPU spikes up to 98%. Memory is at 90% generally all the time. I don't know how to check each of the two cores. I thought that it may be the audio card. It plays most things without a problem - its a Scarlett Solo - just struggles on more complex tracks while others are smooth as.

[Ostermilk]

You'd think throwing more power at the problem would cure all but the chance are if you can export a project faster than realtime with no issues in the bounced audio then the chances are you are not lacking in power for the project at hand but in realtime processing performance. A gaming rig might cure it but it may make matters in terms of being able to process audio in near time a great deal worse.

The reason being is that it's your machine's ability to run at your selected buffer size in near realtime without interruptions rather than it's brute force capability that should take priority. More RAM will rarely ever hurt though.

The suggestion above to do with setting the power plan is a good one as the system stops monitoring itself worrying about CPU states and just gets on with the job at hand, device drivers as well are common culprits that can negatively impact on 'real-time' audio performance. Video cards, audio cards, networking (especially wireless) and USB ports can all affect DPC performance too.

You can use this tool to help find likely causes of problems with your hardware setup to mitigate any issue you might be having with any rig great or small.

http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

I have enabled the power setting to high performance but it achieved very little if anything. I ran the software and got the all clear. I'm a bit confused about using a gaming rig. I need a solution, and had assumed greater CPU and RAM using decent components would do the job ...

If it's a dedicated audio setup you are afte,r these guys really know their stuff when it comes to audio rigs in the UK, there are similar companies that can put a nicely tweaked pro-audio system together depending on where you live, eg ADK in the US. Going this route you'll also get support and a warranty if it doesn't do what it says.

https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/custom/daw-d ... actors#anc

[SonicDreamer]

Yeah sorry man, I meant Hyper Threading...normally you press the DELETE button on most computers before the OS starts up, and need to look for the "Hyper Threading" setting under the CPU settings, disable it and restart to try again.
It worked for me and made all the difference, so I guess it's at least worth a shot and - you can always set it back if you don't get any joy with the change.

[ThisIsNotTheMusic]

If it's a dedicated audio setup you are afte,r these guys really know their stuff when it comes to audio rigs in the UK, there are similar companies that can put a nicely tweaked pro-audio system together depending on where you live, eg ADK in the US. Going this route you'll also get support and a warranty if it doesn't do what it says.

https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/custom/daw-d ... actors#anc

According to that I'll need an i7 processor for CPU. Expensive. I have been advised that high end i5 is better than low end i7. Either way, it means a new computer for the studio. Guess I will just have to bite the bullet.

[Ostermilk]

If it's a dedicated audio setup you are afte,r these guys really know their stuff when it comes to audio rigs in the UK, there are similar companies that can put a nicely tweaked pro-audio system together depending on where you live, eg ADK in the US. Going this route you'll also get support and a warranty if it doesn't do what it says.

https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/custom/daw-d ... actors#anc

According to that I'll need an i7 processor for CPU. Expensive. I have been advised that high end i5 is better than low end i7. Either way, it means a new computer for the studio. Guess I will just have to bite the bullet.

Nah, it doesn't say you'll need an i7 most of their desktop workstations are i5's and I'm using a 6600k myself but you configure your exact needs from the drop downs on each rig's page, it's just if they sell a setup they've tested the life out of all the different options before they offer them to market. They do this stuff everyday unlike most forum advisors like myself they REALLY know their onions.

[ThisIsNotTheMusic]

[/quote]

According to that I'll need an i7 processor for CPU. Expensive. I have been advised that high end i5 is better than low end i7. Either way, it means a new computer for the studio. Guess I will just have to bite the bullet.[/quote]

Nah, it doesn't say you'll need an i7 most of their desktop workstations are i5's and I'm using a 6600k myself but you configure your exact needs from the drop downs on each rig's page, it's just if they sell a setup they've tested the life out of all the different options before they offer them to market. They do this stuff everyday unlike most forum advisors like myself they know their onions.[/quote]

Ah, I get it, I can see most have i5 & 8GB, which is what I was looking at. I was reading the summary about CPU's. I'm in oz so don't think this option is going to work out - but certainly appreciate the direction.

[Ostermilk]

The main guy behind 'DAWBench' is from oz, he runs this firm IIRC.

http://www.aavimt.com.au/

Dawbench page:

http://www.dawbench.com/

It might be worth giving them a call first.

[ThisIsNotTheMusic]

The main guy behind 'DAWBench' is from oz, he runs this firm IIRC.

http://www.aavimt.com.au/

Dawbench page:

http://www.aavimt.com.au/dawbench/benchmarks.htm

It might be worth giving them a call first.

Looks interesting. thanks for the tip. A call can't hurt. I do start to worry a bit about costs for this type of bespoke solution though. Am but a humble night time and weekend dabbler with it seems too much time on his hands.

[Ostermilk]

The main guy behind 'DAWBench' is from oz, he runs this firm IIRC.

http://www.aavimt.com.au/

Dawbench page:

http://www.aavimt.com.au/dawbench/benchmarks.htm

It might be worth giving them a call first.

Looks interesting. thanks for the tip. A call can't hurt. I do start to worry a bit about costs for this type of bespoke solution though. Am but a humble night time and weekend dabbler with it seems too much time on his hands.

Many of us are and many purport to be 'experts', much better to get the lowdown from the real experts in my experience.

[pushedbutton]

Two points after scanning through what I missed today.
Scan does sell some good stuff BUT most of the local smaller firms in the area get a decent trade deal with them. I don't live far from their head office and these guys www.euxtoncomputers.co.uk are undercutting scan's price quite significantly but using parts baught there. My new rig is totally overkill for Reason and I'm paying £1260 for it, the 3XS systems are lovely but you pay for their branding, I just tried matching the spec using the 3XS customiser tool and gave up when the price got to over £1500, I didn't even put the graphics card in.
The other point, try turning off your Wifi and if you have Google Drive running, quit it, it's a resource hog.

[ThisIsNotTheMusic]

Two points after scanning through what I missed today.
Scan does sell some good stuff BUT most of the local smaller firms in the area get a decent trade deal with them. I don't live far from their head office and these guys http://www.euxtoncomputers.co.uk are undercutting scan's price quite significantly but using parts baught there. My new rig is totally overkill for Reason and I'm paying £1260 for it, the 3XS systems are lovely but you pay for their branding, I just tried matching the spec using the 3XS customiser tool and gave up when the price got to over £1500, I didn't even put the graphics card in.
The other point, try turning off your Wifi and if you have Google Drive running, quit it, it's a resource hog.

I have tried everything suggested. Still have the same issue. I really appreciate all the advice. Unfortunately, the SP i5 is just not up to the job. What is the point of having your main work tool restricting your creative work? Only solution is to get something built. Really wasn't planning on this expense.