Why is Reason Lacking in so many popular DAW lists for 3rd party products

[dvdrtldg]

RS should concentrate its investments in social promotion by finding producers who can enhance their videos with the spectacular visual presence of the Rack or (since there are musicians in RS capable of creating modern and powerful tracks, Matthias above all) create their own, have them edited by young and edgy videomakers, publish them with unofficial profiles and promote them massively.

All it takes is one viral video and Reason will start grinding out numbers.

Don't know about the "one viral video" prediction, but I agree that RS need to be going much bigger with their videos. There's so much great info & inspiration in their livestreams, to have that sort of thing condensed into well produced 10 minute (or whatever) videos would be fantastic

At the moment, 99% of Reason video output seem to be confined to Ryan's fun & wacky product demonstrations - designed to please everyone, which means they're not really for anyone - or plodding EDM/hip hop producers offering 25 minutes of "Uh, OK, I'm gonna load this, uh, this next preset, uh, wait a minute, uh OK, this one's called Etheral Pad, uh, and as you can hear, uh, it sounds kinda, uh, ethereal". There's definitely a need for well produced tutorials that highlight the unexpected creative elements of Reason and don't pander to musical genre expectations. Stuff that's a little geeky and goes deep, but still remains accessible enough to make noobs want to up their skills

[Billy+]

I doubt the sequencer is the primary thing that kept people out of the Reason DAW.

unfortunately no its not just the sequencer anymore

personally I'm hoping that the current R12 beta fixes the long standing bugs, sorts out this High DPI whatever and actually produces something close to being worth the upgrade price £199. - man that's so excessive considering the current trend from those that have lead the industry (excluding the subscription models "wave lol"...)

#ReasonStandaloneForever

[QVprod]

I doubt the sequencer is the primary thing that kept people out of the Reason DAW.

unfortunately no its not just the sequencer anymore

personally I'm hoping that the current R12 beta fixes the long standing bugs, sorts out this High DPI whatever and actually produces something close to being worth the upgrade price £199. - man that's so excessive considering the current trend from those that have lead the industry (excluding the subscription models "wave lol"...)

#ReasonStandaloneForever

I meant historically. But I don’t think it’s bugs either. R12 has been fairly stable for me since day 1 minus the small graphical glitch or so and I had no issues with earlier versions.

[supersmarter]

A very very well-known audio plugin company which I won't name here, I had a support inquiry with them. When opening a ticket Reason was not listed as a DAW of choice where I could describe my problem.

Then I asked about plugin support in Reason DAW. Support personnel told me he never heard of Reason and politely asked me for understanding so that he can forward my inquiry to someone else more experienced. He also told me that they officially support only DAWs listed on the product page (Reason is not there).

Even though their plugin load fine in Reason for some reason Reason as a DAW was not under their radar at all. It was a matter of MIDI routing and they told me to change my DAW.

Was wondering why is that but obviously even if I ask them I won't get a clear answer. No problemo. I use Reason daily and use Rack plugin in Live a lot.

But it was the funny realization that such a big company never heard for a Reason (or perhaps the support personnel was a rookie)

[crimsonwarlock]

OK so you're basically using RE's to write the track for you.

That is what you got from my little workflow example?!

I guess you think quantization and editing MIDI notes after they've been played in by hand is also cheating

But maybe you can point me to a player that can 'write a track for me' because then I can ask myself why the heck I've been doing the writing myself for the last 40 years or so

[crimsonwarlock]

I'm currently redoing older tracks I made before with Reaper. This means a lot of editing imported MIDI and audio clips in Reason. So far, this has been a breeze in comparison with Reaper. The MIDI editor is leaps and bounds beyond the Reaper one. So, it eludes me what people think is really missing here.

Those who play midi into the sequencer are just fine for the most part. It does the jobs as well as any other DAW imo. From what I’ve seen it’s mostly people who want other features, step input, built in step sequencer, Chord track…etc… I suppose those who are inputing by hand.

Personally I think it’s fine enough for everything except audio and I guess automation could be a bit cleaner. I doubt the sequencer is the primary thing that kept people out of the Reason DAW.

I'm indeed playing most parts into the sequencer. However, I don't like broad quantization, so I edit stuff afterward. The sequencer is more than fine for that. I do step sequencing (when I need it) with players. No problem with that either. Granted, I don't have much use for a chord track myself. As for audio, which means mainly vocals in my case, the editing is more than fine. Point me to another DAW that has vocal pitch and timing editing capabilities as core functionality? By the way, I was pleasantly surprised to see all my vocal comps that I did in Reaper, imported correctly and still editable in Reason

Besides, if you watch many YT videos done by people who have used Reason for a decade or longer, you'll see them discovering functionalities in Reason that were there for a long time but were unknown to them. Even Ryan, who I regard as a Reason power user, picks up things form time to time he didn't know. There is definitely a lot more to Reason than meets the eye.

[bxbrkrz]

Besides, if you watch many YT videos done by people who have used Reason for a decade or longer, you'll see them discovering functionalities in Reason that were there for a long time but were unknown to them. Even Ryan, who I regard as a Reason power user, picks up things form time to time he didn't know. There is definitely a lot more to Reason than meets the eye.

This is not a positive.
Out of sight, out of mind...

[crimsonwarlock]

This is not a positive.
Out of sight, out of mind...

I don't get what you are trying to say here. What I'm pointing at is the fact that Reason seems much more capable than many people perceive it to be. And it seems to have many functionalities that are not obvious to users without reading the user manual. DAWs are pretty complex tools in general, and Reason is no exception. Expecting all that functionality to be obvious in one way or another is rather naive.

But what do I know, as I didn't know Reason can somehow 'write the tracks for you'

[bxbrkrz]

This is not a positive.
Out of sight, out of mind...

I don't get what you are trying to say here. What I'm pointing at is the fact that Reason seems much more capable than many people perceive it to be. And it seems to have many functionalities that are not obvious to users without reading the user manual. DAWs are pretty complex tools in general, and Reason is no exception. Expecting all that functionality to be obvious in one way or another is rather naive.

But what do I know, as I didn't know Reason can somehow 'write the tracks for you'

The thread is about understanding Why is Reason Lacking in so many popular DAW lists for 3rd party products
We don't have the data so we speculate, based on our own long experience with Reason.
I care very little about a DAW writing tracks for me.
Based on your observation, the perception by the public of Reason lacking some options is real. Even though it's great you can do what you wanted just with Reason, not knowing it could've pushed some people to eventually look elsewhere: 'out of sight'. After a while you forget about Reason: 'out of mind'. The users forget, so are 3rd party businesses whose resources have to be managed and prioritized to popular platforms.

Your observation was added to one of many eventual answers to the thread. Simple

[Harpuia]

At the moment, 99% of Reason video output seem to be confined to Ryan's fun & wacky product demonstrations - designed to please everyone, which means they're not really for anyone - or plodding EDM/hip hop producers offering 25 minutes of "Uh, OK, I'm gonna load this, uh, this next preset, uh, wait a minute, uh OK, this one's called Etheral Pad, uh, and as you can hear, uh, it sounds kinda, uh, ethereal". There's definitely a need for well produced tutorials that highlight the unexpected creative elements of Reason and don't pander to musical genre expectations. Stuff that's a little geeky and goes deep, but still remains accessible enough to make noobs want to up their skills

I really wish they'd do more videos like the one Infekt did for Grain a year or so back. That was a great video that highlighted some weird uses of Grain for bass sound design that I hadn't thought of before.

[scotward57]

Understandable that the OP wants us to stick to the topic but asking such a question can't avoid the subject of Reason falling behind the other DAWs. And maybe Reason made peace with it with releasing RRP.

[Mistro17]

Even if Reason is behind on sequencer features which just makes it different and admittedly off putting to many, that should not stop the staff at Reason Studios from reaching out and networking with 3rd party companies. Reason may not have all the bells and whistles as other DAWs but it is still popular and a very capable DAW. It's just different imo in a visually nice way. Not being listed with 3rd party products can also be a factor that hurts sales. Sometimes it's the body language. If musicians are seeing so many other DAWs listed for keyboards and software and do not see Reason, that alone can reinforce the perception of not taking Reason seriously. This is a question I would love to hear someone from Reason Studios address this to give us clarity. I have no idea how this stuff works.

For example, does Native Instruments reach out to DAW companies, or do DAW companies reach out to them during development or upon announcement?

[iTrensharo]

I only use Reason DAW.

And to me it's just a matter of marketing and product placement (like pretty much everything these days)

What makes the difference in the sales of one DAW over another is not the established producers or hobbyists who know their business or even famous artists: it is the kids, the wannabe producers who want to create music for their teenage milieu who have dreams of filling clubs while they are at the console playing their bangers.

That's basically true, but it basically explains the issue with Reason. It's a product with a user experience designed for a specific type of user, and as the new generation of people enter the market, it becomes less and less intuitive in general. The fact that the sequencer has been allowed to lag behind the competition in development also means that the merits of picking it up and acclimating to its skeuomorphic user experience isn't as enticing as it may have been in a much younger DAW software market.

It is hard to derive an effective marketing plan when your product was designed for a generation that is aging out of the market. This is why the Rack is probably their best path forwards. Unless they make a shift to hardware and create something like an Ableton Push 2 specifically for Reason, it as a standalone DAW is limited in reach and marketability by its own design.

And, for the record, it was probably instrumental in moving a LOT of musician from analog hardware onto PC-based music production, so it actually did serve a monumental purpose in the DAW market. It's just that that time has... passed. Right now, that UX is largely nostalgic.

UI and UX preferences have shifted as more and more younger people who grew up using PC software enter the market. People like the Retro Sound, but they generally don't like the Retro Look.

Despite the fact that DAWs like Live and Cubase are mature mainstays that dominate mindshare in their respective market segments, Look and Feel (UI) and Workflow (UX) are the main reasons why DAWs like Bitwig and Studio One have been able to come onto a mature and crowded market and grow so quickly. DAWs like Pro Tools and Samplitude Pro X are often avoided specifically due to UI and UX concerns. People don't even get far enough to see how well they work. They just look at them and write them off.

A lot of that is happening with Reason.

The Rack was the best option, because it allows people to ignore the part that would put them off of it, while still benefitting from the part that is great about it (the good bundled instruments and players) and just use that in their preferred DAW.

[iTrensharo]

Even if Reason is behind on sequencer features which just makes it different and admittedly off putting to many, that should not stop the staff at Reason Studios from reaching out and networking with 3rd party companies. Reason may not have all the bells and whistles as other DAWs but it is still popular and a very capable DAW. It's just different imo in a visually nice way. Not being listed with 3rd party products can also be a factor that hurts sales. Sometimes it's the body language. If musicians are seeing so many other DAWs listed for keyboards and software and do not see Reason, that alone can reinforce the perception of not taking Reason seriously. This is a question I would love to hear someone from Reason Studios address this to give us clarity. I have no idea how this stuff works.

For example, does Native Instruments reach out to DAW companies, or do DAW companies reach out to them during development or upon announcement?

Development of what? Controller Integration - NI would want to develop for at least the market leaders (Steinberg, Avid, Ableton, Apple, PreSonus) because it makes sense for them to make their hardware as attractive as possible to those user bases - to sell more units. However, I'm unsure if the support that exists specifically for those controllers is something NI reaches out to arrange or something the DAW developers contact them to arrange.

Software is no different than any other plug-in developer. I'm not sure why they'd need to reach out to anyone for Maschine 2 software development, for example, unless they needed to license specific tech in it (i.e. REX2 Support, ReWire, Ableton Link (if required), etc.).

It's not that Reason isn't taken seriously, it's that people don't care to devote mental bandwidth to something that doesn't serve them, nor will they "donate" money into unnecessary purchases to ensure its continued existence, simply to prop up the user base out of "good will."

Not being listed on system requirement listings is unremarkable, and it's also circular. Unless the user base grows, then there will continue to be less incentive to devote resources toward testing specifically in Reason... And this means that it continues to not be listed there.

I don't think most users care, though, as the vast majority of the products they'll interact with are Virtual Instruments and Plug-ins that generally work in most any DAW that has decent support for the SDK upon which they are built (AU, VST[3], AAX). They probably don't even read the system requirements. This actually is a big problem because when Waves had an update for a product that broke Cakewalk compatibility, all of the users kept updating and then contacting them about the issue that was actually listed in the system requirements for the product with a note telling them not to update until the problem was fixed...

Hardware are the only products that I can see someone looking at requirements and skipping out on Reason for, but it would have to be a pretty decent purchase. I don't think someone is going to let a $200 MIDI Controller purchase dictate what DAW they buy. They'll just look for another controller, instead.

But if I were buying a $999 Controller and it didn't work with Reason, I'd probably be far less willing to "look at an alternative" and would just skip Reason, instead.

[QVprod]

Those who play midi into the sequencer are just fine for the most part. It does the jobs as well as any other DAW imo. From what I’ve seen it’s mostly people who want other features, step input, built in step sequencer, Chord track…etc… I suppose those who are inputing by hand.

Personally I think it’s fine enough for everything except audio and I guess automation could be a bit cleaner. I doubt the sequencer is the primary thing that kept people out of the Reason DAW.

As for audio, which means mainly vocals in my case, the editing is more than fine. Point me to another DAW that has vocal pitch and timing editing capabilities as core functionality? By the way, I was pleasantly surprised to see all my vocal comps that I did in Reaper, imported correctly and still editable in Reason

Studio One has this with the Ara melodyne integration. Professional licenses get melodyne essential for free so it counts as a stock plug-in to me. I believe Logic can also do this with Flex Pitch.

Audio editing in Reason is okay and workable if you’re primarily editing individual tracks one at a time. If you need to work with groups of tracks it’s not as good as other options. I find Studio One’s comping to be much better but I submit Reason’s comping is still better than most for a single track workflow.

[crimsonwarlock]

If they had only added track folders, midi comping and markers, then there would have been an increase of users on those lists for years.

So, you are saying that people who are getting into music recording are staying away from Reason because it doesn't have track folders, or markers. You seriously believe that people starting out with music are having those things at the top of their list of things that must be available?

Those functionalities cater more to people who are already rather experienced in the process. And at that stage, people are not moving to Reason and leaving their current DAW behind just because Reason also has these things. And because the bulk of the revenue has to come from new users, there is little incentive on the marketing side to implement these features.

However, I do agree that this means that people will jump ship and move to a DAW that has those features. But it is also typical that many fugitives are lingering here on the forum, asking for features that are in the Reason DAW, to be implemented in the RRP. They clearly miss functionality that is unique to the Reason DAW. The simple fact is that every DAW lacks certain features that other DAWs might have. Jumping ship because a few workflow features are missing, will certainly land you on another DAW where it only takes time until you find that there are other workflow features missing in that one. To avoid this trap, I have always been deeply invested in the DAW that I use, learning its strengths rather than looking for the flaws, as they are always there. There is no silver bullet solution, as the saying goes.

[crimsonwarlock]

Sorry, I do not agree. For me, in my opinion, it's the opposite. You need an easy and good workflow feeling and a good overview, even when you do not color all / sort all tracks on your own. An easy generated track structure on the fly, espeacially in the beginning that is gold. Good UX is very important, don't underestimate beginners UX needs. Same with clip launcher, midi comping or markers. It helps you to play and jam around, capture ideas quickly or write down spontanious notices. Its essential in my opinion for a modern DAW workflow and customers realise that reason just don't care about good UX workflow now and start with newer, better sequencers, because thats the heart of music production.

In your argumentation, you need no features aside from midi recording at all, so you don't need a DAW to start making music an play the guitar or the keys and record them into Adobe Audition. Thats OK, sure, but that is not the topic.

Where you go wrong in your argument is that you seem to think that your way of working represents the commonly accepted workflow. You state that a clip launcher is essential, while that concept was the main difference between Ableton Live and basically every other DAW existing at that time. Many DAWs still don't have a clip launcher or anything similar. It isn't essential for a large part of the music making demographic. The fact that Live catered to a certain demographic among musicians doesn't mean everyone needs a clip launcher now. Similarly, here have been rather heated discussions here about the lack of punch-in/out functionality in Reason, but the reality is that it is only lacking for those that want/need it. If Reason would get auto-punch functionality, or a clip launcher, it wouldn't make it a more professional DAW for me. Same as the absence of those things doesn't make it a less professional DAW for me.

Saying that I advocate for 'just' MIDI recording is also beside the point. I use the available technology like most other musicians. However, there are many ways to compose, record and produce music. That spectrum is vast, and it is the main reason that all these DAWs can exist besides each other. It also means that differences in functionality are a good thing, not a bad thing. If that wasn't the case, there would just be one DAW and nothing else.

Blanket statements like Reason is a toy, it's not a professional DAW, it lacks important features, don't have validity. Personal perception is everything. Reaper is regarded a powerhouse in the DAW world, but I switched to Reason because for me, Reason is more functional. Same as every other DAW is more functional for their users.

[bxbrkrz]

I only use Reason DAW.

And to me it's just a matter of marketing and product placement (like pretty much everything these days)

What makes the difference in the sales of one DAW over another is not the established producers or hobbyists who know their business or even famous artists: it is the kids, the wannabe producers who want to create music for their teenage milieu who have dreams of filling clubs while they are at the console playing their bangers.

That's basically true, but it basically explains the issue with Reason. It's a product with a user experience designed for a specific type of user, and as the new generation of people enter the market, it becomes less and less intuitive in general. The fact that the sequencer has been allowed to lag behind the competition in development also means that the merits of picking it up and acclimating to its skeuomorphic user experience isn't as enticing as it may have been in a much younger DAW software market.

It is hard to derive an effective marketing plan when your product was designed for a generation that is aging out of the market. This is why the Rack is probably their best path forwards. Unless they make a shift to hardware and create something like an Ableton Push 2 specifically for Reason, it as a standalone DAW is limited in reach and marketability by its own design.

And, for the record, it was probably instrumental in moving a LOT of musician from analog hardware onto PC-based music production, so it actually did serve a monumental purpose in the DAW market. It's just that that time has... passed. Right now, that UX is largely nostalgic.

UI and UX preferences have shifted as more and more younger people who grew up using PC software enter the market. People like the Retro Sound, but they generally don't like the Retro Look.

Despite the fact that DAWs like Live and Cubase are mature mainstays that dominate mindshare in their respective market segments, Look and Feel (UI) and Workflow (UX) are the main reasons why DAWs like Bitwig and Studio One have been able to come onto a mature and crowded market and grow so quickly. DAWs like Pro Tools and Samplitude Pro X are often avoided specifically due to UI and UX concerns. People don't even get far enough to see how well they work. They just look at them and write them off.

A lot of that is happening with Reason.

The Rack was the best option, because it allows people to ignore the part that would put them off of it, while still benefitting from the part that is great about it (the good bundled instruments and players) and just use that in their preferred DAW.

I agree 100%, although that hill looks like a hairy belly.

Right now I am watching a video called "The best Reason instruments to create 808s". I pretend I know nothing about Reason while watching it, and... Reason is so eye candy and lovely looking. Lots of steps feels like.

[Mistro17]

Even if Reason is behind on sequencer features which just makes it different and admittedly off putting to many, that should not stop the staff at Reason Studios from reaching out and networking with 3rd party companies. Reason may not have all the bells and whistles as other DAWs but it is still popular and a very capable DAW. It's just different imo in a visually nice way. Not being listed with 3rd party products can also be a factor that hurts sales. Sometimes it's the body language. If musicians are seeing so many other DAWs listed for keyboards and software and do not see Reason, that alone can reinforce the perception of not taking Reason seriously. This is a question I would love to hear someone from Reason Studios address this to give us clarity. I have no idea how this stuff works.

For example, does Native Instruments reach out to DAW companies, or do DAW companies reach out to them during development or upon announcement?

Development of what? Controller Integration - NI would want to develop for at least the market leaders (Steinberg, Avid, Ableton, Apple, PreSonus) because it makes sense for them to make their hardware as attractive as possible to those user bases - to sell more units. However, I'm unsure if the support that exists specifically for those controllers is something NI reaches out to arrange or something the DAW developers contact them to arrange.

Hardware are the only products that I can see someone looking at requirements and skipping out on Reason for, but it would have to be a pretty decent purchase. I don't think someone is going to let a $200 MIDI Controller purchase dictate what DAW they buy. They'll just look for another controller, instead.

But if I were buying a $999 Controller and it didn't work with Reason, I'd probably be far less willing to "look at an alternative" and would just skip Reason, instead.

When I bought my NI Komplete Kontrol S88, it took me a couple months before I got it to work with Reason. I thought I can only use my 88 with Cubase and had to switch back and forth between the 88 and my Akai if I wanted to use Reason. I had to contact Reason Support who told me how to get it going which was a very generic almost hacky process (That support ticket also took a while to resolve). That controller costs over $1000. Obviously the techs at Reason know how to get these controllers to work so why not make some kind of public info available or offer the solution for the keyboard via a script to make it work like others in preferences in an update for example? Then contact NI to let them know it's supported?

I imagine other Reason users who bought hardware and are not aware of how to get it working. Either they will ditch the keyboard or Reason depending on what they value most and it's just not necessary if only Reason support was done better. As for companies not wanting to spend resources, I think it would only make sense to reach as many musicians as they can which helps their sales no? Reason may not be as popular in many minds but there are a LOT of Reason users who will skip some hardware which is a loss for those companies. Aside from hardware it's just the overall absence of Reason when DAWs are listed and mentioned, even on YouTube. I can't help but think there's a marketing disconnect. Or Reason as a DAW is being left to drift. But on a bright note, it's good to come to these forums and see that Reason is still loved and very much alive.

[jam-s]

For example, does Native Instruments reach out to DAW companies, or do DAW companies reach out to them during development or upon announcement?

Development of what? Controller Integration - NI would want to develop for at least the market leaders (Steinberg, Avid, Ableton, Apple, PreSonus) because it makes sense for them to make their hardware as attractive as possible to those user bases - to sell more units. However, I'm unsure if the support that exists specifically for those controllers is something NI reaches out to arrange or something the DAW developers contact them to arrange.
...

NI have their own hardware integration protocol NKS (like Remote is for Reason) and they offer support for developers who want add NKS functionality to their plugins/products: https://www.native-instruments.com/en/s ... evelopers/

That kind of tight integration with their hardware is a very nice plus and I would wish for Reason to also add NKS support for the RRP. And to also employ one developer to work on Remote integration for more hardware.

[Robintes]

Some very good observations here (user since R5 now R10 but looking enviously at Mimic R12). I too have noticed that RS aka Props was so laid back and far out its just plain outa sight. I wondered if it was going bust? IMHO its like a Meccano set of the Soundscape vs a Leggo (FL). FWIW Music Producers are on borrowed time, such is the immense versatility of all the aggregate sound smithing tools and auto melodic arrangers. An AI plug in must surely be just around the corner to harness all these options, look at market demand and start composing new smash songs - in a heart beat. Can you see it (by 2024 say)
AI can make movie plots and screen plays now (for pulp B list stuff) whats not to like.

[reasonosaer]

Could be unpopular opinion: Reason was/is too complicated for novices especially, so many people who hate it or think it's "not a proper DAW" feel this way so based on their poor experience with it. Either way, who cares, it's a fricking good software and it works well.

this is funny, i'm assuming you mean the jacks and wires on the back of the rack that are apparently extremely confusing to people under 35. if you didn't go, "WTbloodyF do you mean i can't punch in or comp midi, i could do that in version one of X daw in 1998 and i remember justin adding this feature request to Reaper literally overnight when he was the only developer, f'ing audacity has had this feature for a decade!" and then do the same thing several times an hour for the first dozen or so hours you tried using Reason then I've got some bad news for you, you're the novice. i think most people just give up on Reason with prejudice after the third or fourth "you cannot be serious" missing feature and move on to a functional DAW that's either built by people who have done serious audio production work themselves or are at least humble enough to realize they should probably take feedback from people who have seriously. you have to be a real outlier personality type to drive a company into the ground over the course of a decade while getting very consistent, almost universal feedback that you are making a mistake and need to change course the entire time. it was really quite a spectacular display of stubborn arrogance by Propellerheads original management and we're lucky the company survived in any form.

the only people i've ever heard say they're satisfied with Reason's sequencer and don't find it to be obviously unfit for serious production work have two things in common in my experience. they're boomers who started using Reason as middle aged hobbyists in the 90s and 00s and never tried anything else seriously so they have never used a modern audio or midi sequencer and have no idea what they're missing. also all five or six of them are extremely active members of this forum who seem to be very emotionally invested in Reason and personally offended by any suggestion it's not a "serious" or "professional" DAW. even if you can eventually get to the same outcome in Reason that you could in pro tools or cubase for audio or logic for midi without wanting to tear your hair out because it's the only way you've ever done it, it's going to take you much longer than someone arranging and editing in a modern non toy DAW which simply isn't appropriate in most professional contexts where someone is being billed for your time. it's one of those you don't know what you don't know kind of situations and there's probably a little dunning-kruger effect involved as well.

[motuscott]

I would have guessed Stockholm Syndrome, but I've been here since Reas4.

[crimsonwarlock]

the only people i've ever heard say they're satisfied with Reason's sequencer and don't find it to be obviously unfit for serious production work have two things in common in my experience.

Let's start here. Saying 'in my experience' and then stating things as being valid is basically what Dunning-Kruger is about.

they're boomers who started using Reason as middle aged hobbyists in the 90s and 00s and never tried anything else seriously so they have never used a modern audio or midi sequencer and have no idea what they're missing.

Hmmmm... that's not me then. I've used Reaper intensively and extensively for over a decade. I'm very aware of the things that are not in Reason. However, I'm also very aware of the things that are not in Reaper. It is called a balanced perspective

also all five or six of them are extremely active members of this forum who seem to be very emotionally invested in Reason and personally offended by any suggestion it's not a "serious" or "professional" DAW.

I don't see myself as extremely active, but I'm active on the forum. So are many of the negative oriented people here. I'm not 'emotionally invested', Reason is a tool, not a lifestyle. But I do think it is a nice tool, and I like working with it. The problem I see with this forum is that there are so many people here who obviously don't like working with Reason. I wonder why they are so 'emotionally invested' in their negative perspective to stay around here and batch about it.

even if you can eventually get to the same outcome in Reason that you could in pro tools or cubase for audio or logic for midi without wanting to tear your hair out because it's the only way you've ever done it, it's going to take you much longer than someone arranging and editing in a modern non toy DAW which simply isn't appropriate in most professional contexts where someone is being billed for your time.

'Most professional contexts' is a blanket statement and gives little validity to your stance, if any. There are several professional contexts where Reason is perfectly useable. However, it is a stupid idea that Reason should be usable in place of DAWs that are used in (for example) professional recording studios. It is not aimed at that demographic. It is the same reason why you won't find FL studio (arguably the most used DAW in the world) at the center of pro recording studios.

it's one of those you don't know what you don't know kind of situations and there's probably a little dunning-kruger effect involved as well.

Calling the kettle black.

Side note: you should start your sentences with a capital, it's proper form.

[moalla]

the only people i've ever heard say they're satisfied with Reason's sequencer and don't find it to be obviously unfit for serious production work have two things in common in my experience.

Let's start here. Saying 'in my experience' and then stating things as being valid is basically what Dunning-Kruger is about.

they're boomers who started using Reason as middle aged hobbyists in the 90s and 00s and never tried anything else seriously so they have never used a modern audio or midi sequencer and have no idea what they're missing.

Hmmmm... that's not me then. I've used Reaper intensively and extensively for over a decade. I'm very aware of the things that are not in Reason. However, I'm also very aware of the things that are not in Reaper. It is called a balanced perspective

also all five or six of them are extremely active members of this forum who seem to be very emotionally invested in Reason and personally offended by any suggestion it's not a "serious" or "professional" DAW.

I don't see myself as extremely active, but I'm active on the forum. So are many of the negative oriented people here. I'm not 'emotionally invested', Reason is a tool, not a lifestyle. But I do think it is a nice tool, and I like working with it. The problem I see with this forum is that there are so many people here who obviously don't like working with Reason. I wonder why they are so 'emotionally invested' in their negative perspective to stay around here and batch about it.

even if you can eventually get to the same outcome in Reason that you could in pro tools or cubase for audio or logic for midi without wanting to tear your hair out because it's the only way you've ever done it, it's going to take you much longer than someone arranging and editing in a modern non toy DAW which simply isn't appropriate in most professional contexts where someone is being billed for your time.

'Most professional contexts' is a blanket statement and gives little validity to your stance, if any. There are several professional contexts where Reason is perfectly useable. However, it is a stupid idea that Reason should be usable in place of DAWs that are used in (for example) professional recording studios. It is not aimed at that demographic. It is the same reason why you won't find FL studio (arguably the most used DAW in the world) at the center of pro recording studios.

it's one of those you don't know what you don't know kind of situations and there's probably a little dunning-kruger effect involved as well.

Calling the kettle black.

Side note: you should start your sentences with a capital, it's proper form.

Why people are so emotional? Maybe this period of time at all is high emotional for musicians and artists in chances of working together, find places and spaces for their projects after this ..... crisis.

Art is a emotianl thing, emotions are highly regarded by attractors of to be and not to be. So if there is no space to be, people become frustrated and turning around their thoughts in a bad way. For example i saw these days a girl with a stage piano some speakers and a macbook, sitting on the floor at a railway underpass to show her skills, cause most music pubs gets closed after this ...... pandemic sh.. I would say these phenomenom could be seen everywhere, where artist are looking for uncoventional stages to show her stuff.....
In this new era of living together, it´s a sometimes a thing of shame and hate what comes together and makes people worse, or iss it nice that´s forbidden that meetings where limited to maximum 3-5 persons outside, otherwise it´s a crime !!! ?

So people are now more and more online active, having jams online, because music pubs, places are no longer open or rare as hell. So at this point of discussion it would be better to talk about open spaces and space for art moments in the world, than have a conversation why is ... marketing so so sad. For this WE the users have to produce trailers as a benchmark for the small marketing reasonstudio group, where they could learn something from, only meh meh meh changes nothing!



[[And yes I´m one of this 90´s people who are not interested in function monster sequencers, but some extras added to the last big sequencer update are welcome or overdue, like multiple track and drumnote editing, auto bounce in out with predefined thresholds......track markers!]]