Where is Reason going ?

[arqui]

I saw that they closed the thread of the Memory Bug in Reason 11, I wonder since it has been more than a month that I do not see that it has been corrected: Will they fix it? or it will be fixed in version 12 ... I'm impatient and worried ... If I have to do a Downgrade, what version worked well? And how do I do it since I don't have the installer and Reason Studios doesn't provide it to me either.

The installers are available on the main site
the bug fix is "being tested",
we can't find a version 11 that doesn't include it

It should be getting released as a minor update - but information is thin.

Thanks!!! I was asking for a previous installer !!!
hopefully it is solved

[arqui]

The installers are available on the main site
the bug fix is "being tested",
we can't find a version 11 that doesn't include it

It should be getting released as a minor update - but information is thin.

I am confirming again that it is being tested There are those of us that are testers. It takes time to test these things and there are other bug fixes as well that will make it into the release. It will be a free point update.

Thanks, Joeyluck!!! that gives peace of mind.

[buddard]

Personally, I'm a bit baffled by all the disdain and worry about the future direction of Reason.

I bought into the Reason 5 + Record 1.5 Duo about 10 years ago, because it had all that I needed to make music. I have seen everything that has been added since then like a bonus.
If I hadn't thought the Reason + Record Duo was enough at the time, then I wouldn't have bought it.
If I had thought that an upgrade wasn't worth it, I would never have bought that upgrade.
I never buy software with the expectation that more stuff will be added to it later. Either it serves its purpose from the beginning, or I buy something else.

The only thing that has worried me a little bit recently is the possibility that they might eventually take away permanent licensing and go rental only -- That's it! And even that doesn't seem very likely right now, at least for the next couple of years. So I will worry about that if/when the time comes.

Of course, people have different opinions and expectations and I respect that. Just offering my $0.02.

[bangaio]

Reason Studios have always preferred being stubborn, never communicating

their general lack of communication about plans is starting to cause problems

Uh, since when has Propellerhead ever stated what their future plans are? I haven't been with them from the start, but I have never seen that from the PUF or any social media in the last decade.

the high res update is hugely important... it cannot be a simple re-skin of what’s already there.

But it probably will be. Of just the Rack. Imo.

What will be coming with version 12 ? The only thing that has been promoted everywhere is hi-res graphics. I don't give a damn about graphics. You're gonna charge me €129 for new graphics

If they are charging 129 for mostly hi-rez, I will be passing another upgrade. Still not on the monitors that need that kind of thing. Nor do I care because I can zoom in if needed - if it's a tad fuzzy, bfd.

I still don't understand where Reason is going, nor where Reason Studios are leading us.

It's one big adventure! No one knows. If they offer something of value to you, pay up to stay for the ride. If RS is not giving you what you need, don't upgrade.

They literally had things called .plan files from the dev team as well as the spy cam. https://web.archive.org/web/200006141 ... -home.htm


Check it out here

Code: Select all

[bangaio]

I mean have a look at this random .plan update. Imagine hearing something like this from reason studios these days. Working on the sequencer

Friday, March 31, 2000 at 03:29:44 (CEST)

Right now were designing some internal stuff for milestone 9. This means we do small diagrams and play around with ideas of how the new code will hang together. We also fill-in details of the Reason specification so we know *exactly* what to code.

Coding will commence shortly.

During this milestone we're finishing the last of the machines. Most are already complete, like the effects, the synth, the REX machine and the sampler - but the drum computer needs lots of work (and love). So does the ReWire input machine and the MIDI-note to Gate thing.

I am mainly working on the sequencer. I'm going to finish the real-time recording and so on. I gotta figure out how to draw changes of the tracks in "real-time" while recording. When coding this kind of stuff you want to make sure the window never contains stale or invalid graphics, but you also want to redraw as little as possible and as quickly as possible. And without flicker. Challenge. I also have to get all this to work with our undo-system.

*** Warning - start of bragging

I've been talking about this at the office lately: This is the first project I've been working on where I don't get totally blind of the coolness factor. Usually you add stuff to a project during a pretty long span of time - like a year - so you kind of take everything for granted. This happens when you make music as well. You get tired of the thing you spend so much time with.

But with Reason I often just lean back in my chair and say out laud "This is **** cool!!". The cables often do that to me! So does the big machines - the sampler for instance. Especially when I start to drag and drop things around and the cables gets auto-routed before my eyes. Those are the kind of kicks I get from software

When I got my first computer with a windows system on it - an Atari ST (512k of RAM, 320k floppy and no hard disk) - I used to spend lots of time just moving windows around - scrolling a little... and just smiling - looking like a moron.

Same thing with Reason! I find myself just creating lots of machines and dragging them around and smiling in a "Jim Carrey on Ecstacy" kind of way.

*** end of bragging

[bangaio]

I’ll finish my thoughts with this: the new marketing guy for reason + said that of course they will be working on the plug-in more as it is now very popular. Great I think but then why are people using these great instruments and effects as a plug-in elsewhere. Because the sequencing and audio workstation tools and workflow are better on those platforms. Make reason as a stand alone better and more people will buy it. This seems so so simple to me. Instead there is disengagement from the company and a lack of transparency and openness.

The CEO is in record saying that they have had the best year ever and the. Marketing guy is on here saying that the product has a core use base but not many new users are getting on board.

I’m obviously paraphrasing here.

[R303]

Wouldn't expect countless changes, looking at older upgrades.
In retrospect the discussions were also big (e. g. version 8).

With so many wishes, I wonder why they don't use the RRP.

[Djstarski]

Their current mission statement is basically to be a leading creative instrument and effect developer. To expect any thing else at this point would be a futile attempt of your mental faculties.

So are they forcing Reason only users to get another DAW for the other workflow features ? If so its starting to make sense now .

[Oper-8]

(FM in 2021 ? Wow, awesome !)

As opposed to other synthesis types that are actually older than FM? Subtractive, wavetable, additive...all older than FM.

I'm talking more about Algoritm than about FM synthesis on itself... What's the point to release a FM synth in 2021 ? Friktion is awesome because it opens so many possibilities beyond a realistic violin. To each his own taste, I know, but anyway. As far as novelty :
- still no VST3 (though the Rack Plugin is VST3),
- still no real MIDI tools (select per velocity range, restrict to range, a few math functions),
- still no real browser (one column scrolling slow as hell),
- still no Note Join (Ctrl+J with notes),
- still focus loss on some keyboard shortcuts,
- still no real popup menus (only the system menu, on one column),
- still no MIDI Note Chase (Ableton Live has this since V10),
- still no users' suggestions (thank you for your feedback and suggestion, you know the phrase),
- bug when bouncing or exporting a few old VSTs (EWQL Play)...

I could go on for a whole page. But hey, we will have hi-res graphics, so yay ! Seriously, THAT was the top priority ? So that means most of the users are asking a more beautiful and visually accurate environment, rather than the dozens of features still missing to compete against any other DAW (even the free ones) ? Duh, what a disappointment...
But anyway, it kinda reassures me, to see that a bunch of users have the same opinion and fears as I do. Sadly, we're still giving credit, money and faith into a company that is slowly letting us down. That's my point. But hooray, we'll have more "Look , it's new and awesome and we're extremely proud of it" videos showing an overexcited Ryan talking for hours about the Props' newest idea. It was legit for Friktion, but it's disturbing for Algoritm and hi-res GFX and "a bunch of other stuff" or whatever they call the other forthcoming "new" features. Well, only time will tell anyway. But it's sad. Reason Studios has become worse than other companies, and in the end, I bet they'll have more veterans leaving than newcomers joining.

[joeyluck]

As opposed to other synthesis types that are actually older than FM? Subtractive, wavetable, additive...all older than FM.

I'm talking more about Algoritm than about FM synthesis on itself... What's the point to release a FM synth in 2021 ? Friktion is awesome because it opens so many possibilities beyond a realistic violin. To each his own taste, I know, but anyway. As far as novelty :
- still no VST3 (though the Rack Plugin is VST3),
- still no real MIDI tools (select per velocity range, restrict to range, a few math functions),
- still no real browser (one column scrolling slow as hell),
- still no Note Join (Ctrl+J with notes),
- still focus loss on some keyboard shortcuts,
- still no real popup menus (only the system menu, on one column),
- still no MIDI Note Chase (Ableton Live has this since V10),
- still no users' suggestions (thank you for your feedback and suggestion, you know the phrase),
- bug when bouncing or exporting a few old VSTs (EWQL Play)...

I could go on for a whole page. But hey, we will have hi-res graphics, so yay ! Seriously, THAT was the top priority ? So that means most of the users are asking a more beautiful and visually accurate environment, rather than the dozens of features still missing to compete against any other DAW (even the free ones) ? Duh, what a disappointment...
But anyway, it kinda reassures me, to see that a bunch of users have the same opinion and fears as I do. Sadly, we're still giving credit, money and faith into a company that is slowly letting us down. That's my point. But hooray, we'll have more "Look , it's new and awesome and we're extremely proud of it" videos showing an overexcited Ryan talking for hours about the Props' newest idea. It was legit for Friktion, but it's disturbing for Algoritm and hi-res GFX and "a bunch of other stuff" or whatever they call the other forthcoming "new" features. Well, only time will tell anyway. But it's sad. Reason Studios has become worse than other companies, and in the end, I bet they'll have more veterans leaving than newcomers joining.

To each their own indeed.

My modeled string needs are more than met because I own SWAM, but that doesn't mean I need to be upset that Reason Studios creates an option for Reason users.

I have a ton of FM synths. It's my favorite type. Reason Studios needed a good FM synth, and I'm happy they did it in a unique way that offers something new to what I have.

I'm on a standard display, MacBook Air. I don't need the graphics update as desperately as others. But it is after all the top request of the polls. When it comes, I'm sure I will appreciate it very much and will enjoy zooming the rack. But again, it's not my top request.

1. MPE support is at the top of my list.
2. VST3 support as well, which might've been hinted at in a livestream, and seems inevitable since VST2 is no longer supported by Steinberg.
3. After that, maybe I want track folders?
4. And I also want them to further develop pitch edit to incorporate something like VocAlign.
5. I'd like the option for it to automatically create a new MIDI note lane when recording on loop

Automation curves, individual track height zoom, crossfades, the mixer components as Rack Extensions, absolute snap, etc. that were delivered in Reason 11 were all feature requests. Wanting the Reason Rack as a plugin was also a big request. So just because they might not be incorporating yours or my suggestions, doesn't mean they aren't listening to and incorporating user suggestions.

[Oper-8]

I know that they won't obviously include *my* suggestions. For God's sake, everyone keeps answering the same stupid thing each time...
I'm quite amazed when I see all those BASIC features missing. We don't have VST3 support, seriously, although the Rack Plugin itself comes as VST3 ! The browser and search engine are impossible to use without wasting huge time or wanting to shut Reason for good ! There are so many things that have been waiting for years already and are still not there, that I sometimes wonder whether the Props do use Reason themselves !

<off-topic>
Talking about SWAM, have you ever tried to bounce in place, or export a loop or a song ? Does it output cut out audio (like a DJ would do a slow transformer effect) ? This is one of my main rants at the moment. I have the same with EWQL Play VST. Both companies know the problem, but none wants to solve it.
</off-topic>

[joeyluck]

I know that they won't obviously include *my* suggestions. For God's sake, everyone keeps answering the same stupid thing each time...
I'm quite amazed when I see all those BASIC features missing. We don't have VST3 support, seriously, although the Rack Plugin itself comes as VST3 ! The browser and search engine are impossible to use without wasting huge time or wanting to shut Reason for good ! There are so many things that have been waiting for years already and are still not there, that I sometimes wonder whether the Props do use Reason themselves !

<off-topic>
Talking about SWAM, have you ever tried to bounce in place, or export a loop or a song ? Does it output cut out audio (like a DJ would do a slow transformer effect) ? This is one of my main rants at the moment. I have the same with EWQL Play VST. Both companies know the problem, but none wants to solve it.
</off-topic>

I haven't had any issues with SWAM. Looking forward to the Strongs upgrade to v3 this month!

I did have the export issues with Play VST when I tried Composer Cloud. Supposedly some other DAWs have the issue as well and it's been an issue for quite some time.

[plesio]

The great attractor in this forum seems to be: "How ignorant, incompetent, short-sighted and whatever is that company called Reason Studios?"

This is more than ridiculous.

If you don´t want to support a company then don´t BUY, USE or UPDATE their products.

It is that simple. Save the money for something different.
But be sure there are people who see this differently.

I love that REASON I use and I appreciate every single day with it for many years.
...and I pay for it, of course.
...and I don´t regret a single €.

Btw, did I mention that I like the company very much too?
...and I don´t want to be the head of strategic product development at RS, but maybe because I am a naive user and not a pro.

Greetz to Mattias, Ryan and the guys !

[Biolumin3sc3nt]

The great attractor in this forum seems to be: "How ignorant, incompetent, short-sighted and whatever is that company called Reason Studios?"
This more than ridiculous.

If you don´t want to support a company then don´t BUY, USE or UPDATE their products.

It is that simple. Save the money for something different.
But be sure there are people who see this differently.

I love that REASON I use and I appreciate every single day with it for many years.
...and I pay for it, of course.
...and I don´t regret a single €.

Btw, did I mention that I like the company very much too?
...and I don´t want to be the head of strategic product development at RS, but maybe because I am a naive user and not a pro.

Greetz to Mattias, Ryan and the guys !

I concur! Uranium 235 - "Don't touch it"

[tronam]

<off-topic>
I still don't understand where Reason is going, nor where Reason Studios are leading us. Tons of "new" (FM in 2021 ? Wow, awesome !) synths always hide a feeling of "hey, here are fillers so we can give you the illusion we consider you, dear users".
Instead of focusing on useful things (all the features that had been suggested in the now dead PUF), they keep giving (well, selling) things people never asked for.

I'm 20 years into Reason now and the current evolution of the program is not surprising at all. Outside of the R6/7 period, the majority of Reason's history has been primarily focused on being a fun modular rack with a simple, streamlined sequencer. R11 with the RRP and a focus on new instruments and effects feels like them doubling down on their R1-5 roots which is what the majority of people liked anyway. It was a smart business decision, although I know disappointing to some. I stopped holding onto hope of it becoming more of a feature parity competitive DAW ages ago and am glad to see Reason Studios focusing on what they were always best at. Algoritm is a great example of this and how they can stand out in an increasingly crowded market.

[Oper-8]

Some people should read more thoroughly before jumping on any post... Did I say I didn't want to support them anymore ? Do you really think I'm dumb enough to post here just because I'm fed up with giving them my hard earned money ?
I'm only pointing out their inability to really listen to their users - which is what regular companies do when they genuinely have their users and their expectations in mind, not just what makes the company or product stand out from the concurrence.
I love Reason and I use it everyday. I can't use any other music software. I bought some great REs (and some less great, where the devs just abandoned the product and, like Reason Studios, don't even bother replying to suggestions). I'm just fed up with how the company is slowly drifting away from giving users what they've been asking for since years. And it's nothing fancy, really - just the basic needs of any DAW. No bells or whistles (though a free RE just with bells and whistles would be fun), no hi-res GFX, no useless yet-another-synth-with-onboard-FX. Just basic, handy functions, regular features. Besides being useful to literally every user, that would just take fewer time to develop than fancy synths or a visually attractive UI.

As for the Play VST, EWQL told me it was working fine in all other DAWs. They don't know whether Opus (the successor of Play) will fix the audio glitch issue, though.

[jappe]

The great attractor in this forum seems to be: "How ignorant, incompetent, short-sighted and whatever is that company called Reason Studios?"
This more than ridiculous.

If you don´t want to support a company then don´t BUY, USE or UPDATE their products.

It is that simple. Save the money for something different.
But be sure there are people who see this differently.

I love that REASON I use and I appreciate every single day with it for many years.
...and I pay for it, of course.
...and I don´t regret a single €.

Btw, did I mention that I like the company very much too?
...and I don´t want to be the head of strategic product development at RS, but maybe because I am a naive user and not a pro.

Greetz to Mattias, Ryan and the guys !

I'm a big Reason fan too, emotionally invested in the product since Reason v1, and increasingly economically invested since v6.5 when the Rack Extensions feature was released. And recently I started a R+ sub after the trial, looking forward to getting inspired by a stream of new sound packs - I need inspiration!

But.

If I wouldn't be happy with the product development over the years, I'd feel locked in due to the RE investment that I cannot resell.
I can understand any user frustration due to this, and I hope RS will provide a way to allow unhappy users to make it easier to move to greener pastures in their eyes.

[zoidkirb]

It'd be a sad day if people stopped complaining about the DAW on forums like these as it would mean users have just given up and moved on. Passion is a good thing, as are ideas and suggestions that come up in threads like these.
I'd prefer less off-topic RS bashing in the wrong threads though.

[tronam]

I gave up on Reason as my primary DAW and moved on ages ago. I do think they should continue to improve on it though, especially for the loyal users who still prefer it. Considering how rarely I see Reason marketed as anything other than the RRP these days does not bode well, but then again R12 may be a pleasant surprise. A high res GUI alone is not enough to justify a full version upgrade, so perhaps the overhaul will give them greater flexibility to more easily add core features.

[R303]

They were never been the fastest.
It took up to version 6 for a quality mixer, even 2010 you couldn't drag audio loops in the sequencer, you always had to use a sampler (that was annoying).
External plug-ins only came in 2012 with RE, VST just in 2017, MP3 export in 2020.

When hi-res comes along, many will certainly complain about the lack of a vector GUI because that's so simple to implement in the rack, FL has it and so on.

[earwig83]

To all the people angry about reason: I support you and feel we deserve to be listened to more. A lot more. Especially the 20 year veterans who sunk thousands into this company.

To the people who say things like "if you don't like it stop using it or don't buy it then" or "it was never supposed to be a full DAW" Please stop. It doesn't help. Complaining does! It's been proven with Cancel Culture, that people complaining en masse leads to things changing. Now of course their are negative consequences to that too but it is just an example.

Plus RS clearly stated in the past in their marketing that this is where they were going, a full daw. They only recently started backpaddling because of investors and because their business model is finite. So they are looking for ways to extract money from people for shoddy and tacky strategies like making FM synths in 2021. My hope is that it will be in tandem with further DAW development. But not 100% sure.

I say, if the overly positive types really don't like seeing our extremely valid complaints, could we please create a b**chfest thread/section/sticky on this forum where those of us unhappy with the many bad RS decisions/strategies/choices recently can commiserate? I'd love that actually! And others would too. Some of us just want to vent to other likeminded people and not have to be constantly told that our reasonable concerns are not valid. If I wanted that kind of treatment, I would b**ch on Facebook or reddit, where all the corporate apologists thrive and shut down dissent and protect shitty company practices by belittling people who speak out. I think Reason Talk is a major step above those places but sometime I feel worried about being honest about my feelings about this platform and its current growing pains.

[earwig83]

It'd be a sad day if people stopped complaining about the DAW on forums like these as it would mean users have just given up and moved on. Passion is a good thing, as are ideas and suggestions that come up in threads like these.
I'd prefer less off-topic RS bashing in the wrong threads though.

I appreciate seeing this comment.

[arqui]

Any company of any kind does say "if you don't like it stop using it or don't buy it then" it goes straight to failure and ends up disappearing. This under no point of view should be of the thought of Reason Studio (I'm sure it's not like that), neither now nor before, because every company lives on its users.
They have been with their new managers for some time, they are trying to set a new course and attract new customers. Propellerhead was always at the forefront, let's not forget all his achievements and creations (eg Rewire, Recycle, etc) and his DAW was always unique, none of them look like it.
I think you have to wait and see what the real destination of the course they want to take is.
The concern of us old users is valid, Reason Studios has the mission from now on to keep its old users happy and to attract new ones.
I am going to continue using your DAW, although for a few months it has not been my only DAW, I also use Studio One for the final Mix and Mastering, which with Reason was already very complex and tedious, apart from the VST3 support.
There are many things that annoy me and are missing from Reason, but I don't think this is the thread.
Greetings.

[earwig83]

You guys know you can just go outside, right? Go for a nice walk?

I find this diminishes people's very valid thoughts. Some of us are more outside than you may be aware of.

[Faastwalker]

Does it feel lacking in direction because I'm paying so close attention? I see updates every now and then for other DAW's. I've got nothing invested in them so I just see 'update' without knowing anything about it or having any great interest. Watching Reason Studios like a hawk on the other hand. Here's my take;


1. Reason DAW - Needs some work, if only to convince people they still care! Doesn't feel much like it over the last few years. But so much to be done that people would really love to see. I love it as is. It's great. But if it's not moving forward then it's not moving at all.

2. Reason Rack - All the focus has been here. This is where it's at. That's great ...... if Reason isn't your main DAW. Reason as a plug-in has ZERO interest if Reason if your main DAW. It doesn't even makes sense, hence why R11 was such a lackluster and largely ignored upgrade for Reason 'Reason' heads.

3. Reason Mobile - Reason Compact. WTF happened to this? Reason's foray into the mobile platform, which should be great, seems as destined to failure as the foray into hardware with the fantastic but lacking interface, the name of which I can't even remember now. A real shame.

4. Reason RE - looked amazing, slow start, then kind of slowly got relegated to a small group of absolutely AMAZING independent developers (outside of Reason's own devices). I'd still take RE over VST any day of the year. But do Reason Studios feel the same? Impossible to believe they do. Not least since the shop has been relegated to the home page footer!

5. Reason Subscription - I can't express how much I detest software subs. On the other hand I can't express how much I love Reason. Somewhere in the middle I took the plunge and went for it! Maybe Algoritm, whilst still being on R10, pushed me over. 50% of for the first year and I suddenly have R11, Algoritm, a bunch of new RS Players and a stack of other RS RE's? What could go wrong?! :-/

...........................