Possible forum migration in the works...

[JiggeryPokery]

Hmmm... i guess we will lose our saved PM's then.. Furthermore besides that, it's working now and very reliable, besides those rare issues months back, this place has had more uptime than any other forum I visit, seriously. It's fast and it works. Never had a PM issue here, what do you mean buggy pm's?

I hate to be the devil's advocate but am sort of against the move, as i do believe they will come good and offer the ignore and report functions.. I think they are probably just having coding issues and want to do the best job possible. Wordpress is a major player and i think give them more time.

finally, this bit scares me:
"While I can not make any promises that everything will make it over exactly as it is here, we should be able to preserve the really important stuff"

Unless you can do a one : one without any loss of anything whatsoever, it's sort of a mini puf all over again - everything we have built should stay as it is. However if you do decide to move and want (for free of course) the reason chat domain to merge with this (so reasonchat goes to reasontalk) if it will help you get hits, you are welcome to it as i have it still for 6 months or whatever, maybe a bit longer. 
But Brent, I am against the whole idea, you asked for honesty, I can only give you it from my own POV

Developing always takes longer than anticipated, although I can understand the aggro of constant "next month, for sure!" type bullshit would get wearing real fast. 

However, on balance I'm inclined to, hold the front page!, agree with Theo, to stay put unless there is a compelling reason to leave, and based on the OP, I don't see it. The outstanding issues are really just window dressing, although admittedly I don't use mobile browsing much, that could be a deal breaker for some, but I don't know if phpBB would be better here either; PUF was phpBB right? That was shite on mobile too. And Ignore function, while it has its use, most adults here seem to have coped pretty well so far without it, so again that's hardly a deal-breaker. Lack of it is being used an as excuse for considering a move, rather than an entirely necessary reason for doing so. And lack of live Chat? Heck, that's probably beneficial... we all have enough distractions from doing real work as it is!

One also has to ask: do you really want to lose people to the LearnHowtoReasonBadly forum? It's one thing migrating once... twice in eight months is a risk.

Obviously if it becomes a clear binary choice shut down entirely or move site, then move site, of course. But at the moment it doesn't sound at all like a necessary move.

It's easy to forget how much effort some of us put in moving stuff across from PUF. I suspect more people will be less bothered a second time around.

[boobytrap]

whatever your choice, count me in !

[davidhyno]

Just waiting for tapatalk compatibilty!  https://tapatalk.com/

[Olivier]

I'd only move if you really need the features. Sure its annoying if they promise and don't deliver but i would try to keep that out of the equation.
Also, i'd only move ship if it would be easy to move both passengers and cargo. Else i'd say we're sailing along quite nicely. When this place first opened i thought i'd be missing an ignore feature, but a few months in it turns out fine. Which i think says something for the way this place is run

[normen]

You might also want to consider that phpbb is the main target for spam bots and exploits in terms of forum. Choosing a more obscure forum software might be a better choice. SMF or even the new Discourse come to mind, SMF being a more classic but very powerful forum software (mostly running server-side) and Discourse being a modern-style software thats in heavy development right now (but works great and puts less strain on the server through heavy JavaScript use).

Generally I'd say that a move isn't really needed from my perspective though.

[Yonatan]

A move is not bomb-ticking urgent, but good to consider other options if the postponement gets on and on. I like this place but I agree that it is terrible on a smartphone...allthough I can live with that too for a while longer. Should I stay or should I go now? Whatever, I will go with your choice.     

[Aikmofobi]

I'd rather we move to phpbb.
It's a royal pain to navigate here on android. Slow, unresponsive and buggy while it works flawlessly on PC.

[maketunes]

Yes its android that lets it down. Do what you feel is best

[Jamesville]

Do it, the longer you leave it the more it will bug you and the more important threads will be lost.

[jfrichards]

I'm very happy and settled in here, so I'm 100% OK with staying, but you do all the work, so it's your call.  The current layout is one of the best I've ever seen and used.

Johnnie "no help at all" Richards

[EnochLight]

Despite a few quirks, I'm totally fine with the forum the way it currently is.  From a user standpoint, I have no complaints.  Sure, the "ignore" feature missing can irritate occasionally, but it's really not that big of a deal IMHO.  

I vote we stay!  

[Lunesis]

Actually, from what I am hearing, everything should convert over 1:1, even user's pm's. They are also saying that there will be no cost for maintenance so it may end up being a bit of a no brainer.

[joeyluck]

Actually, from what I am hearing, everything should convert over 1:1, even user's pm's. They are also saying that there will be no cost for maintenance so it may end up being a bit of a no brainer.

Well I guess that should make the decision easy then!

One thing - it does look much like reasonheads.net, but I suppose that's the typical look/layout with phpBB? Looks like that is what they use over there... Any way to differentiate more?

Will the phpBB allow a chat feature? That was something I thought was great with this forum initially...although I suppose some folks were having some issues...which the devs said they would resolve?

I don't use traditional PMs, but the chat feature is handy. There are many conversations I would've taken to chat. It's much easier to get on the same page with other users with chat vs exchanging several paragraphs either via thread replies or PMs and getting lost in dialog. So a chat feature would be very cool

[Olivier]

Actually, from what I am hearing, everything should convert over 1:1, even user's pm's. They are also saying that there will be no cost for maintenance so it may end up being a bit of a no brainer.

Then rip off the band-aid and do it i'd say. Choose the solution that fits you best. We're just guests here

[Kenni]

Hi,

I'm one of those that proposed a solution for Lunesis, and trying to map out the pro's and con's of a migration, if ever.

The two most deciding factors the way I see it is the price plan, and the freedom.

First of all, Lunesis already disclosed the price plan, and as you can see in the statistics, this forum is only increasing in traffic (yay!), which makes it more and more expensive. Secondly, with the current solution, development and extra features on ReasonTalk.com is pretty much in the mercy of a 3rd party. A 3rd party that is developing said functionalities for all their customers, which kind of rules out small changes for specific customers.

Now, I actually like this system. It's pretty simple which makes it easier to focus on what it is: A forum - However, we're a bunch of volunteers that are more than willing to maintain the backend of the forum, and can implement changes on the fly (including a integration of the chatroom already in use, see the sticky). All this while not being limited to a fixed amount of pageviews per month.

In comparision, a solution that has 3000 GB traffic (yes, 3 Terabyte) a month, is cheaper than current solution, and much more flexible.

Regarding the looks of the screenshot Lunesis provided, and reasonheads.net; Thats all a matter of the platform being the same (phpBB) - phpBB is skinable though, so we're aiming to keep the same look as now.

Important: Please not that a decision about a migration hasn't been made - We're just providing Lunesis with an alternative. I would even vote that we do a test migration, and let all of those people who want to try our proposed solution out, do so, so people can form an opinion. That way, we would be able to stress-test it as well

[Gorilla Texas]

I wouldn't mind really opening this place up to all DAW/gear topics,it's a good place to be and most people are here to help and use multiple DAWs anyway. As long as users stay on topic and keep things in the right forums it shouldn't be a problem with good moderation.


Another thing I'd like to see is what threads is everyone viewing like at future producers. 

Please no.. there's kvr and gearslutz and many more for that.... Let's keep it about Reason.. there is one subforum to post about other daw's if one must which is plenty. No shortage of reason topics here and no need to clutter it up

I respectfully disagree,opening the forum to new sub-forums could bring you more users with unlimited knowledge in other areas mixing,mastering techniques or the business side of music. I'm sorry but this forum has a knowledge ceiling that stops at mostly the developers i.e Giles,JP or Normen to name a few imo. Those forums that you mentioned are driven mostly by arrogant users who like to talk down to people imo. I would love more tech talk on this forum about other gear.     

[ScuzzyEye]

I respectfully disagree,opening the forum to new sub-forums could bring you more users with unlimited knowledge in other areas mixing,mastering techniques or the business side of music. I'm sorry but this forum has a knowledge ceiling that stops at mostly the developers i.e Giles,JP or Normen to name a few imo. Those forums that you mentioned are driven mostly by arrogant users who like to talk down to people imo. I would love more tech talk on this forum about other gear.     

It's not a matter of "build it and they will come." It's already been built, and those people are at KVR and Gearslutz.

We have one sub-forum that covers all other programs and gear, yet it receives about 2 posts a day. If each piece of software and gear was given its own forum, they would be complete ghost towns. I say, if the number of posts on the "other" sub-forum grows to the point where the number of different conversations makes it hard to follow, go ahead and break it out.

[Gorilla Texas]

I respectfully disagree,opening the forum to new sub-forums could bring you more users with unlimited knowledge in other areas mixing,mastering techniques or the business side of music. I'm sorry but this forum has a knowledge ceiling that stops at mostly the developers i.e Giles,JP or Normen to name a few imo. Those forums that you mentioned are driven mostly by arrogant users who like to talk down to people imo. I would love more tech talk on this forum about other gear.     

It's not a matter of "build it and they will come." It's already been built, and those people are at KVR and Gearslutz.

We have one sub-forum that covers all other programs and gear, yet it receives about 2 posts a day. If each piece of software and gear was given its own forum, they would be complete ghost towns. I say, if the number of posts on the "other" sub-forum grows to the point where the number of different conversations makes it hard to follow, go ahead and break it out.

Most probably don't post there because I've seen mods and Reason users complain about us talking about S1 there too lol. So looking at it now I doubt it would work.

[Kenni]

Sorry, but I think the contents of the forum is a bit irrelevant as of right now.

It's ReasonTalk - Making this forum stay about Reason makes sense.

[mcatalao]

Lunesis, that's great from you to ask.

I fully support your decision, whatever it is, but there are some issues you should be aware about phpbb... 

First and foremost, phpbb is an open source platform, it's impressive how it has grown, and the amount of functionality it has with only the work of people that for most of its time, are in it with no financial return (I'd say the same for CMS content managers like Joomla).

However, the technology behind it, IMHO, is very prone to security issues. You will have to be on top of things like new builds and installations,  site migrations, and etc. I believe with Wordpress this is not an issue, right? They are the solely responsible for this security issues and migrating the forum every time there is the need for it, most probably without any service interruption.

PHPBB boards, are also very prone to bots, posting stuff that direct people to suspicious sites. I don't know with the newer versions, but some years ago, most site owners implemented some sort of human validation  (the ominous captcha), that must be asked for each login action. 

Finally... I'm ok with loosing PM's, but one reason why people got mad with Propellerhead was with loosing the history of threads and posts on the PUF. It's important that people do not loose this, so as you've said, its valued information. And, then again, i don't see that it is not possible to maintain user profiles, as long as you can retrieve the database and migrate the user structure, pm's, images, and finally, any information that is not present nowadays in a phpbb forum, can be mapped to new custom fields, either on the profile or thread/post entities. The only thing i see maybe more difficult to map would be passwords. 
You should ask Wordpress if they are willing to give you full access to the database, or you might not guarantee portability.
Kudos for all the work and love you put into this!

[Kenni]

Just to clarify some things here.

Wordpress, phpBB, and a dozen other CMS/Forum software are all prone to the exact same security issues. They're all based on PHP and some sort of SQL-implementation. Wordpress is, as phpBB, an open source solution.

The thing you get with the provider of this forum (WebSite Toolbox, which run a Wordpress-installation with a forum plugin), is that a bunch of employees make sure that their server software is updated and secure, and of course, the Wordpress installations. This is far from uncommon practice, if you run public websites in general, no matter the backend.

As for bots, there are measures that, like Wordpress, you take with phpBB. Captcha, validation towards public blacklist DB's etc. For content, bots are the number one threat, but avoidable with continuous maintenance. This is, in a nutshell, what Lunesis is paying for now, on top of a traffic quote. The suggestion is to save these money, and let volunteers be on top of things. Since a self-served solution will ONLY serve the ReasonTalk.com software, this is a pretty feasible task, even with a crew of just one.

As with each and every site on the net that contains forms, security will always be an issue. Building a backend solution from scratch gives the opportunity to automate OS updates, backups, software updates, upgrades, and custom, non-standard security solutions, which in turn makes you less of a target.

As for the PM's, I already told Lunesis based on the export he's able to do from the current solution, that everything can be migrated, even 1:1. The only thing that might initially change is the smiley's and BBCode, but those things are an easy fix in the forum software itself.

Lunesis, that's great from you to ask.

I fully support your decision, whatever it is, but there are some issues you should be aware about phpbb... 

First and foremost, phpbb is an open source platform, it's impressive how it has grown, and the amount of functionality it has with only the work of people that for most of its time, are in it with no financial return (I'd say the same for CMS content managers like Joomla).

However, the technology behind it, IMHO, is very prone to security issues. You will have to be on top of things like new builds and installations,  site migrations, and etc. I believe with Wordpress this is not an issue, right? They are the solely responsible for this security issues and migrating the forum every time there is the need for it, most probably without any service interruption.

PHPBB boards, are also very prone to bots, posting stuff that direct people to suspicious sites. I don't know with the newer versions, but some years ago, most site owners implemented some sort of human validation  (the ominous captcha), that must be asked for each login action. 

Finally... I'm ok with loosing PM's, but one reason why people got mad with Propellerhead was with loosing the history of threads and posts on the PUF. It's important that people do not loose this, so as you've said, its valued information. And, then again, i don't see that it is not possible to maintain user profiles, as long as you can retrieve the database and migrate the user structure, pm's, images, and finally, any information that is not present nowadays in a phpbb forum, can be mapped to new custom fields, either on the profile or thread/post entities. The only thing i see maybe more difficult to map would be passwords. You should ask Wordpress if they are willing to give you full access to the database, or you might not guarantee portability.Kudos for all the work and love you put into this!

[ScuzzyEye]

However, the technology behind it, IMHO, is very prone to security issues. You will have to be on top of things like new builds and installations,  site migrations, and etc. I believe with Wordpress this is not an issue, right? They are the solely responsible for this security issues and migrating the forum every time there is the need for it, most probably without any service interruption.

I've seen many private installs of WP exploited, and with much worse results than phpBB. Running a site with dynamic content is always a matter of making sure someone is keeping the pieces up to date. With a hosted WP site, the people at Wordpress keep it up to date. If you go with a company that specializes in hosting phpBB sites, they'll likely be on top of things. If you go with a generic hosting account, and install phpBB yourself, you'll be responsible for making sure all patches are installed in a timely manner. It's all trade-offs, and nothing is ever truly secure. The goal is to make sure you're not the low-hanging fruit that is easily exploited by a bot scanning for sites vulnerable to the latest published exploit.

[zakalwe]

i think the only thing that annoys me about this forum is the multilevel quoting that i always manage to fail to chop properly.  and it would be nice to have reply notifications.

i do appreciate some of the smilies which seem suspiciously familar :s0230:

[phasys]

I think your developers are pulling your leg. So yeah, move. Good idea. You might lose a lot of members though.

[Lunesis]

I think your developers are pulling your leg. So yeah, move. Good idea. You might lose a lot of members though.

Not sure why you think we would lose anyone. Same logins, same posts, same web address, just a different interface with added features like selectable themes and integrated chat. No effort necessary for the end user.