Reason/Logic Pro X terminology-- parallel processing, specifically

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Theo.M
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31 Dec 1969

Julibee wrote:Thanks! No need for a template-- I can do that. Just wondered what some practices were. Was trying to avoid the dupes, and thought I'd see how others do things. I'm also running into a problem of not being able to rearrange mixer tracks in Logic. Is that right? Sure, I can group, hide, show, etc... But no dragging and rearranging? Dang.
The reason i suggested Dupes in logic is because of the highly advanced folder grouping of Logic X.. in real usage it doesn't actually add any clutter like it would doing it in say Reason 

You can not re arrange mixer tracks if the main dark Logic X look "main mixer" in logic. The only way to do it is re arrange the arrange tracks which then re orders the mixer tracks to match. Unfortunately there is no other workaround..

It's a hotly requested feature and apple have been listening lately.. alot.. so i don't doubt we will see it in 10.5 or at latest 11.

There IS however, a way to do it if you are happy to use the environment. In that sense, logic had mixer arrangement of monumental proportions (vertical and horizontal, any size) before any other DAW - I was doing that in 1997.

You will need to turn on advanced options in logic prefs, and unfortunately the environment is the Logic 9 look still so looks weird against the L
Logic X look, but it can be done, if you can bear mixing in the environment mixer instead.
It's a different sort of workflow where you need to assign object "channels", but alot of it will be auto done for you from the tracks you have created, and some won't..

It might be a bit confusing for someone who has never used the logic environment before...again, if you need any tips ask anytime. 

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Julibee
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20 Jan 2015

Hey! As I hinted on Facebook the other day, I did, indeed, buy Logic Pro X. I'm not abandoning ship, but I have always wanted to learn Logic, and be able to share files with a friend who uses it almost exclusively.

That being said, I do a LOT of parallel channels in Reason and I'm having difficulty figuring how to do what I need in Logic. I realize that Reason made this super easy, and that its probably not quite as easy in other DAWs (I also have Sonar X1, but I jumped ship before I really knew what I was doing on the mixing side)-- I also know that terminology might be my main issue.

So. What I want to do-- what I do all the freaking time in Reason-- Is to surround my Vox tracks with parallels. Normally, I run my lead Vox dry, straight up the center, with parallel processing on a panned left and a panned right parallel track.

Can anyone point me to a tutorial that might be useful, or simply enlighten me to the proper terminology for a logic?

Thank you!
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QVprod
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20 Jan 2015

Reason made parallel channels extremely simple. The normal way of doing it (in all other daws) is to use a send at unity gain in pre fader and use that send as the input of an aux track or as many aux tracks as you wish.

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selig
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20 Jan 2015

I too had to get Logic for project, in my case a score for a video with collaborator. I'm still struggling to get up to speed myself, but you should be able to do what QVProd suggests using a pre fader send and creating an Aux channel (or two) for the 'return'.

I hardly use parallel channels myself (in Reason/Logic/PT), so I hope this is correct!
:)
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Theo.M
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20 Jan 2015

Julibee wrote:Hey! As I hinted on Facebook the other day, I did, indeed, buy Logic Pro X. I'm not abandoning ship, but I have always wanted to learn Logic, and be able to share files with a friend who uses it almost exclusively. That being said, I do a LOT of parallel channels in Reason and I'm having difficulty figuring how to do what I need in Logic. I realize that Reason made this super easy, and that its probably not quite as easy in other DAWs (I also have Sonar X1, but I jumped ship before I really knew what I was doing on the mixing side)-- I also know that terminology might be my main issue. So. What I want to do-- what I do all the freaking time in Reason-- Is to surround my Vox tracks with parallels. Normally, I run my lead Vox dry, straight up the center, with parallel processing on a panned left and a panned right parallel track. Can anyone point me to a tutorial that might be useful, or simply enlighten me to the proper terminology for a logic? Thank you!
Hi even though this  is 9 X works the same
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpfQGmyPNX0

This is also a good article here:

http://logic-pro-expert.com/logic-pro-b ... pro-x.html

QV's idea is correct but i thought the links might help you with a step by step.

Reason is the only DAW i know of that makes this incredibly simple.

of course you could also use blue cat's plug in chainer "pathworx" or "MB7".. the latter can split your audio up to 7 bands and put 4 different vst or au effects on EACH band lol! with wet/dry for *any* type of effect. So if all you want to do is parallel processing in a situation to apply a parallel effect you can mimic that here.

Also there is the ddmf metaplugin which is cheaper and also has wet/dry :)

All the blue cat and ddmf plugins also support automation and full delay compensation pass through reporting to logic. They are indispensable tools IMO, and also work with instruments, so you can make your own pre saved instrument/fx chains, and with blue cat patchworx, you can stack instruments like the combinator (simplified) and save them as a simple logic preset.

A little OT there but hopefully all good info.

I used to teach Logic but I am terrible at writing stuff out, but good when i have the mouse in front of me.. if you ever want help, being a user of it for 20 years now, please feel free to ask anytime, via skype even, whatever you need.

cheers


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Theo.M
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20 Jan 2015

Sorry also just wanted to say, a LOT can be done with Reason rewired into Logic. More can be done in terms of "cpu power" than any other rewire combo, due to logic's option to put the rewire onto what it calls a playback buffer core with an internal high latency. 

This is what you do.

By default rewire in logic is off. You will have two modes.. live or playback mode.

By default you should choose live mode, so when you have selected a midi rewire track in logic, it will operate at the lowest possible buffer size, i.e, the buffer you have selected for the "buffer size" in logic's audio preferences. Don't worry about the other internal buffer setting that says small medium or large, just leave that at default medium - that's the hidden playback buffer i will address now.

Anyway, by having rewire in live mode, it will use approx the sort of dsp resources that reason uses if you were to be using reason itself at the same buffer chosen in logic with the same audio hardware.

Rewire can only be stacked onto one core, so what is happening here is that, assuming you have a quad, you will only be able to do plugin/instrument processing of reason devices on one core in logic. In live mode, this is equivalent there abouts to using one core in Reason. Reason on the other hand would use 3 out of the 4 physical cores for fx/instrument processing.

So you are going to get a LOT less in rewire, well, approx 1/3 what you would get in Reason native.

The key with logic is though, once you have played the realtime midi you need to play, you then flick it to "playback" mode in rewire preferences. This will go to the higher internal playback buffer latency, and suddenly you will see your rewire core in Logic drop usage to around a third what it was in "live mode".

You have HEAPS of processing power as logic can literally max out that core to the hilt and play it back without any dropouts.. you will be surprised just how much you can do on it. And once you have written the midi part, having the rewire on logic's higher playback buffer is not an issue to mix with, change patches, create redrum beats using the on board step sequencer, etc.

it's only when you HAVE to play midi with your keyboard in real time to trigger Reason devices, that you need to have Logic's rewire setting on "live mode" - for all other purposes, playback mode is the way to go, and get that huge processing overhead.

In Logic, I am able to get on ONE core, using the playback mode, what i can get using reason on it's own using it's own multi core threading! So you can actually make reason projects that are tipping the edge of cpu performance, and if you want to add more to them, say AU plugins, AU instruments, apple loops, logic drummer, etc..
just load logic, flip rewire into playback mode in logic prefs, load reason, load the project, hit play, and logic will in 95% of cases be able to play back that heavy reason project in realtime. All one thread, and you will have ALL your others free to use for AU/Logic plugins!

You can also bounce rewire stems "in place" offline, using logic's fast bounce function, and the audio will appear immediately.

Anyway, hope that all helps, reason and logic are a really good combo! Have FUN!!!

Edit: Added a sentence.

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Julibee
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20 Jan 2015

Bavanity, that's a great tutorial for like a NY Compression sort of drum tracking. I will use that at some point. Good find. Thank you.

Maybe I should clarify a little. This video is chaining multiple tracks together and processing them as such. What I want to do is chain out a single track into multiple fx... Meaning... I'll have one main Vox track, that I want to fx the single track in different ways*. I was able to do this in Reason, simply by creating a parallel in the mixer and adding fx/pans directly in the mixer. I know I can do this in any DAW, but I'm not sure how. Do I follow the same processes as outlined in this video? Because it seems to me that he is working with multiple tracks.

I think QVProd's idea sounds like a different animal, and I THINK that's what I want. Yes? Auxiliary tracks... That may be the term I was looking for.

*Originally, I'd achieve the same thing by duplicating tracks and having a million tracks to deal with. I loved when we got the functionality to more easily split the sends without physically having to duplicate tracks. Bear in mind that a single chorus of mine might have four or five backing tracks-- each with a parallel... Or two. That adds up pretty quickly.

EDIT to add: read the paragraph after the video more closely... The plug ins might be exactly what I want. Does that differ from the method QVProd mentions? Or is it just another way?
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Julibee
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20 Jan 2015

Oh, and ReWire will come later-- it never worked for me with Sonar-- but I really want to learn Logic. It isn't that I could simply do what I like in Reason, I know I could. I just want to study more. :)
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Theo.M
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20 Jan 2015

Julibee wrote:Bavanity, that's a great tutorial for like a NY Compression sort of drum tracking. I will use that at some point. Good find. Thank you. Maybe I should clarify a little. This video is chaining multiple tracks together and processing them as such. What I want to do is chain out a single track into multiple fx... Meaning... I'll have one main Vox track, that I want to fx the single track in different ways*. I was able to do this in Reason, simply by creating a parallel in the mixer and adding fx/pans directly in the mixer. I know I can do this in any DAW, but I'm not sure how. Do I follow the same processes as outlined in this video? Because it seems to me that he is working with multiple tracks. I think QVProd's idea sounds like a different animal, and I THINK that's what I want. Yes? Auxiliary tracks... That may be the term I was looking for. *Originally, I'd achieve the same thing by duplicating tracks and having a million tracks to deal with. I loved when we got the functionality to more easily split the sends without physically having to duplicate tracks. Bear in mind that a single chorus of mine might have four or five backing tracks-- each with a parallel... Or two. That adds up pretty quickly.
You could always try the rewire tip I suggested and do your parallel stuff in reason, and then output them to separate rewire outputs, then apply delay compensated AU or logic plugs on them - just another idea.

Another way is to simply create a duplicate of that vox track and minus 6d db on each one to match the original volume then treat it as a parallel track. There is no difference to reason there.. if you have a cloned track and put effects on one, that's a parallel effect and what reason is doing, albeit in reason you can do it for busses, etc.

So you are saying you want something paralleled and putting different effects on each one, and maybe even more than one parallel channel, right? The same duplication principle applies, just do as many as you need.

Then they can all have different output destinations if you so choose, and those can then have any output destination and so on and so on. You can create infinitely complex chains, save the chains as a logic "channel strip setting" for recall any time in any project, and the beauty is it's all delay compensated in the case you are using effects with latency.

otherwise the solution QV gave is also correct. I just find it a bit confusing to do it that way cause i traditionally use sends in any daw for just one purpose.. reverb or delay. But that's just me! hehe. 

I'd rather create duplicates and just name them parallel # whatever.

same principle applies in reason with parallels, you need to lower the DB in most cases to get a normal volume output.. the only difference IMO is that in reason it's done at the mixer where as in logic you would need to make sure the data actually playing back on both tracks is in the same spot. But the duplicate function ensures this. You will need to copy and paste if you change data on the main track later on. No big deal.

And it's not a solution for busses, if you want to create a parallel of a bus in Reason.

Don't forget the wet/dry suggestion also, because with one of these sub hosts you can create any sort of FX chains you like and control the amount of the effect for ANY type of effect. Of course this means the effects feed into eachother, so in your case it's obviously not suitable all the time.

As with any DAW, there are multiple ways to do anything, but NOTHING has one button parallels like Reason, and that's just the way it is, so everything is a "workaround".
You just need to find the method that suits you and you feels comfortable with in Logic, and go with it. Or perhaps depending on the project, a combination of methods!

Would you like me to create a basic audio track and 2 parallel copies of it for example, using QV's method, and send you the project? And also the other method i spoke of with duplication?







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Julibee
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20 Jan 2015

Thanks!

No need for a template-- I can do that. Just wondered what some practices were. Was trying to avoid the dupes, and thought I'd see how others do things.

I'm also running into a problem of not being able to rearrange mixer tracks in Logic. Is that right? Sure, I can group, hide, show, etc... But no dragging and rearranging? Dang.
I'm still doing it wrong.
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Theo.M
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20 Jan 2015

Oh my goodness Julibee, I see something here that is going to blow your mind:

http://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_PatchWork/

it has been updated to allow up to 8 parallel chains  :crazy:  per instance!

and this way you can also use ANY vst effect in Logic.

When I last used pathworx it was a lot simpler without this feature.. this is crazy good. I have to have this.. what an easy way to create parallel effects chains using just one channel. WOW.



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Julibee
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20 Jan 2015

I will have to wait and see if it blows my mind... Because I've already blown my budget. ;)

Thanks so much, Bavanity. You've given me a lot of information.
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Theo.M
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20 Jan 2015

Julibee wrote:I will have to wait and see if it blows my mind... Because I've already blown my budget. ;) Thanks so much, Bavanity. You've given me a lot of information.


Just a heads up, they do infrequent sales, twice a year but it could be worth waiting, but in case your budget improves, there is this:

Blue Cat Audio Patchwork + 32 Lives Bundle

http://www.soundradix.com/buy

That gives you the ability to run 32 bit plugs in Logic X and also includes patchworx... I am testing the latest patchworx demo now to see if it will make parallel processing as easy as it claims, and will let you know. I do know it's a very reliable piece of code, as all blue cat stuff is coded to absolute stunning levels of quality.

PS the above bundle is a special but "standard" price. If you decide you want both those tools, you won't get them cheaper individually even on sales if that makes sense.




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Theo.M
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20 Jan 2015

Um Julibee, this is not only "mind blowing", but the best solution for parallel effects processing I have ever used in my life in another DAW besides Reason. And i love the full supported PDC also.
My goodness, this is really terrific.

You just HAVE to try the demo to see what I mean.

You simply have parallel chains of effects..you can have however many inserts in SERIES that you want PER chain, and each PARALLEL row operates as true parallel processing.. so you can have one effect on one row, 10 on another, etc, etc, as many parallels as you want (edit, up to 8 parallel chains with 10 inserts each), and on/off bypass for each chain, phase flip,and an overall wet/dry. This is crazy good.

Sorry for the uber enthusiasm but it just works so well. I am actually a bit excited. I just tested with a bunch of softube EQ's, and also was able to further fine-tune with the overall mix control. There are two modes of summing, one mimics the reason one when one has just "create parallel" in reason called sum, the other is average which compensates for output volume.. clever..

Every chain is parallel to the other, so for example, I have 2 chains...i put no effects on chain one, and i lower the volume of chain 1, there is still audio, exactly like reason, the overall output it is lowered by 50%.. and any effects i put on chain 2 are in parallel to chain 1,and then so on and so on up to 8. So afaik, to mimic reason, you need 2 parallel chains minimum, that's when the signal is split into parallel. 

I know this is over budget right now but do check the demo as it has just solved your EXACT request in one fell swoop.

I hope i explained it right - in a nutshell, whatever amount of "parallel" chains you create in BC, i.e the number that is visible, correlates precisely to how many of that audio you had parallel of in reason.. so the first or "top" one can be compared to the original track in reason, then each parallel below it to each parallel in reason. 


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