The philosophy behind your DAW

[Carol Rein]

Well... I really didn't know where to post this philosophical thread, so I came here to the kitchen... I hope it's ok

Why are we related to DAW?
Are we looking for something different than an accoustic band can offer, or is it about self-sufficiency and independency?
What is a digital emulation for us? Is is it a substitute or is it a different instrument?
What about a bionic piano?... part of it wood, part of it silicon... part of it alive, part of it unlimited...
Is the digital music alive?...
Would be possible to tell a robot deep inside "This is sad".. "this is joy"... "This is love"... playing a keyboard and digitalizing your feelings via MIDI?
What is MIDI? Is it anything different than an evolution of the music box pin drum?

Why a music box is warm and a quantized MIDI sequence is not?

How did Gepetto do to bring Pinocchio to life?

Can we avoid the matter and still exist?

[selig]

Great questions!



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[HepCat]

Long post here because it's my fave topic. Probably written to myself but anyone else is welcome to read.
TL;DR version: DAWs are as legit as any music even any thing. Music and drugs (structure / form) are separate to emotions (life force). The life force is where it's at. Ehhhm ... so, live long and prosper.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Why ... DAW? Are we looking for something different than an accoustic band can offer, or is it about self-sufficiency and independency?

A DAW because:
- It's the method that usurps the standard method: I can't play an instrument (used to play the recorder hehe).
- It's a talisman that channels otherworldly forces into me: I can be whoever l want to be with DAWs, even going back to my first music software: Soundtracker on the Amiga A500 in 1990/1991. I was an orchestra one night, a techno musician another night. I became massive in my own right.
- It's a magical tool that channels my vision and my will into other dimensions: Seeing and hacking waveforms - wow. Vistas of another plane of existence. Sound really does look like that, l saw it when l had the most intense synaesthesia in a nightclub back in 1996, l saw an extremely hi-res waveform display of the music pouring out of the speakers in torrents, made of countless little pixels. DAWs hack reality.

What is a digital emulation for us? Is is it a substitute or is it a different instrument?

You specificy emulation so l'm out of my depth as l've never been an audiophile / purist. I like when a DAW transforms a piano into something it never could otherwise have been. You know, those dreamy filtered piano riffs with reversed parts, slight delays, added chorus, they rock.

What about a bionic piano?... part of it wood, part of it silicon... part of it alive, part of it unlimited... Is the digital music alive?...

Digital music is dead, but then, so is everything if you're talking about structure. There's something else which imbues forms with life, such that even a hillside can hold a fond memory, and even a dank weirdo can bring out awesome music. I think music's part of that life force.

Reality springs from mathematics, perhaps life springs from sequences of notes and more, the timbre of the instruments. Between the note sequence and the 2D timbre, you have a 3D body. I like to think it acts like a talisman and draws down life into it, maybe maths works in the other direction, churning out reality via its forms.

I could be wrong, it could all be illusion, and a random pattern generator could just be dealing out sequences that are dead, and it's only whoever takes a fancy to one particular sequence, that thinks it's cool, and puts their own life force into the appreciation of it, and there's where it gets its life from.

In between the two ideals (music is a fantastic life force which imbues matter with life vs. All life is dead, and any life it has, comes from the attention we put into it) - l think Buddhism offers a middle view. Love / life, when attached to matter, becomes a desire, a fascination, an obsession. In Buddhism (+ half of the world's other belief systems) the material world is suffering and sadness. So ... the 3rd Way would be to take music as a way to return to the life force, rather than obsessing over the specific people or strumming techniques. That's why l go by albums or countries not bands - albums and countries give more of a window on the life force, rather than the individual performers.

Would be possible to tell a robot deep inside "This is sad".. "this is joy"... "This is love"... playing a keyboard and digitalizing your feelings via MIDI?

No way that l know of but it won't matter to me. The robot is just 1D structure and 2D form, like our 3D selves. Can you decide to feel happy, or fall in love at a specific time? Is a beaker full of serotonin or dopamine happiness or a euphoric buzz in itself? The life in us, is separate to our physical reality, it just uses us, our physical reality, as roads, ladders, strings, frets, plectrums. At times, it also gets modulated, controlled by things we do - e.g. get high on drugs, get high on funky music.

So l try to avoid idolising musicians or bands, l go by the album. Sadly these days, it's about discrete blips, individual songs, with no real window on life compared to an album (concept of genres are important to me, they offer a wider view); try to see it as the objective lens of a telescope, too big is unwieldy, too small, like a single song, and you don't see an awful lot - TL;DR: it's about the life force that made manifested in that place, in those bodies, at that time, not the structures themselves.

Btw l like your phrase: "digitalizing your feelings via MIDI". I once OD-ed on ketamine and saw my legs dissolving into rectangles just before l passed out. Maybe my life force was rippling and disrupting and eventually leaving my body. My point is: my legs felt like the grains on a granular synth. Maybe my life force is the player, and my entire reality inc. my concept of my own body, is just a structure that my life force "plays" like a sample player. Except that night it turned granular and dissipated away. You know how it is, when drunk you're Prince Charming, when hung over, you feel ugly. We digitise our feelings into the pixels of our reality.

What is MIDI? Is it anything different than an evolution of the music box pin drum?

After brief research it seems to me that the music box is stuck in a groove, and so a DAW trounces it in the 3 categories l mentioned at the start of this post. Seems like acme of the music box is the vinyl record / CD / DAT? Even then, it's doomed to repeat the same performance forever. Sad but at least the life in it goes beyond the grooves! Makes me wonder though, if the life force is separate to physical form, then how come we get animated by it, but the music box is not?

Why a music box is warm and a quantized MIDI sequence is not?

Music box is 3D. Maybe in a funny way that's why vinyl's better than CD and cassette - because they've obliterated the 3rd dimension in the format, whereas vinyl has visible grooves.

How did Gepetto do to bring Pinocchio to life?

Maybe put life force into it? A fairy finally makes him into a real boy. Seems there was a battle between opposing life forces in the marionette puppet. According to Wikipedia, the story was intended to be a tragedy, where Pinocchio is evil at the start, and ends up reformed but being hanged to death by a fox and a cat.

Controverting that music is part of a ubiquitous life force separate from physical form, the music box example above shows some forms can be animated by it (e.g. us), others cannot (e.g. the music box). I think the answers are in neuroscience. Something goes on in the brain and spinal cord - in the nerve fibres and all the bodily organs which act to service the most beautiful organ, the human consciousness, which exists between the soul (hidden) and the brain (visible). Pinocchio possesses neither a heart / soul nor a brain - so l can't imagine how Gepetto would have given him life.

The closest Gepetto could possibly get is AI / random pattern generators / random CV generators. It'd still be structure though. The life force either comes from elsewhere, or it is all illusion. Perhaps with quantum computing we'll also be able to add 2D form to the creation, e.g. a 3D brain workflow, or self creating musical sequences replete with self-formed music instruments (timbres).

If the life force is all illusion, then we are all actually as dead as our instruments. Perhaps Gepetto had a psychotic breakdown over this, and imagined a marionette to be a boy. OR: maybe Pinocchio actually was Gepetto's son, but Gepetto thought the life force is all illusion and all love, all beauty is dead, and so began abusing the boy, treating him like lifeless trash. The middle way would be: all matter is dead, but your life force is separate, so run with that, however Gepetto would've been abused by his own dad so his life force vanished away, and thus the vicious cycle repeats with Pinocchio. As Pinocchio might say in this alternate reality: "Analyse this".

Can we avoid the matter and still exist?

I believe so, because what would make a specific musical sequence churned out by a random CV generator, cherished by many? Could it draw down a life force that resonates within us? If so, then there is a non-physical component of what we are.

Alternatively, it could just be sympathomimetic. I mean, music could act like a psychoactive drug. How does music act like a drug? Also how does a psychoactive drug act? It's just structure and form, like music. So we're back to the life force (emotions) being separate to the physical (music, drugs). It's a massive non sequitur between taking a drug and feeling empathic, like between listening to AC/DC and murdering somebody (ref.: Skid Row's "18 and Life" based on the story of Ricky Kasso).

... I think we already exist on a plane separate to matter, just as music and drugs (structure / form) are separate to emotions (life force).

[Carol Rein]

Well... I can't quote multiple parts so I'll "manually" quote you. LOL
More than interesting your vision, indeed!
I have to ask you this:
You said that the lack of dimensions in a music recorder (eg: Vynil has 3, CD has 2) is the reason of the lack of life...
So... How is it possible that we could avoid the matter and still exist?
May be this is the answer I find:
The Music Itself would be independent of its record/reproduction system.
Like our consciousness is beyond our brain, and now is limited by our brain structure,
So the music loses its depth depending on the number of it's platform's dimensions.
May be if we get out of our bodies (like dying, like in an astral trip) we'd be capable to appreciate THE MUSIC ITSELF instead of the dimensionalized picture of it. We could appreciate the REALITY ITSELF instead of a dimensional (3d "reality" or matter) representation of it.
Regarding drugs... I know they "open the door" that means they open closed perception centers (activate disabled ports and controllers) but they activate that ports quite before we are capable to activate by our own. That's why the people become unable to manage whatever they perceive, and that's why the final effect always ends in a psychodelic loss of structure, because the mind has no maturity enough to acces the plane is perceiving and has not yet the enzymes to assimilate the food that is coming from there.
Besides that, not only people access the other side... but other beings access from there to here through that open door (activated ports) and in the immature mind/soul status (lack of antivirus) they are deeply attacked and unable to do anything... even unable to see those viruses (entities), even unable to believe the're ACTUALLY REAL and NOT illusions or deliriums. That's the issue when unsing drugs.
We are absolutely capable to create (program) our own controllers to open those ports and activate those controllers, but as in computer programming, the mind has to be trained, wise and mature enough to compose that piece of software. And we're capable to any miracle by our own. Danger free.

BTW what you saw in your legs was the actual granularity of your etheric body. It's real. But you couldn't keep evaluating the hyperstructure due the lack of certain controllers in your system, so your system collapsed by a lack of resources, and a system failure occurred. As a result your camera devices did turn off, and you overclocked making the temp sensor to turn it off... and as you said you "passed out".

And, be sure that you don't write just for yourself. I read your lines, with genuine interest

[Carol Rein]

Edited text above. Too typing mistakes. Sorry

[gak]

These threads can be fun, sometimes. But they usually go south.

Now, my philosophy since 2015 .... if it's stable, I like it. PERIOD.

Reason is the only truly stable host I've used. FL studio is cool, but it's not the music making machine reason is. I'm hella disappointed still in version 9 but 8.3 works and works well. Really need to remember this and move on from screwing around (which I've been doing for about 6-7 months)

[HepCat]

You said that the lack of dimensions in a music recorder (eg: Vynil has 3, CD has 2) is the reason of the lack of life...
So the music loses its depth depending on the number of it's platform's dimensions.

I like your statement that music loses its depth depending on the number of dimensions propping it up. Sums everything up nicely.

So... How is it possible that we could avoid the matter and still exist?

Good observation. It looks like l'm contradicting myself.

I say Music = Life Force = *opposite of Form*
But then l say: Increase Form = Increase Music (hence vinyl > CD)

Here's the original exchange:

Why a music box is warm and a quantized MIDI sequence is not?

Music box is 3D. Maybe in a funny way that's why vinyl's better than CD and cassette - because they've obliterated the 3rd dimension in the format, whereas vinyl has visible grooves.

I had to think what l meant.
I think the context is: you say music box = warm structure. Warm = a mix of aesthetic and structure. Like the aroma, "bouquet", "body" etc. of a wine perhaps. I ran with your idea to say: Vinyl gives a robust body to the music, hence the punchy sound. A MIDI sequence is just flat. If not two-dimensional then it's one-dimensional. It doesn't even have timbre though so l'm leaning toward calling it one-dimensional.

So ... l was really talking about the qualifier: "warm" music box, "punchy" vinyl. Like the aroma, bouquet, body etc. of a wine.
In that analogy, music = the laughter, the tears, the fond conversation, the appreciation of the wine. These are all spokes of the wheel. I probably confused myself by saying music = life force when it's actually a spoke on the wheel of the life force.

So ...

* The MIDI sequence l put in the bracket as tonality, individual frequencies, the mathematical basis of the music - giving out, giving rise to, what we would come to know as music = The bare facts of a news report telling you there's a fire in the woods + The word "fire" in the dictionary, which eventually gives rise to our observer eventually feeling the fire.

* The timbres = a gateway to flesh out the music = The nuances of the news reporters style, you can almost see the fire in the woods just by reading the report

* The medium (vinyl, CD etc.) the more robust the better = Neither a talisman bringing in the music, nor a gateway to pour out the structure of the music like liquid cement. It is in between the aesthetic and structure of the music. It is neither, but it fulfills both together. [In between the medium and the music, you have a mixture of the two, i.e. the warm sound, the punchy sound - just like a physical house can have a good master, if the music is mastered well to vinyl, it can sound nice and punchy, right?]. It is a box, a house, a voodoo doll, a vinyl record, a pop star: It is physical form. = The geographical area where the fire is. Your geospatial awareness.

* The music = a talisman to bring in the life force / the music = Feeling the heat of fire in the woods

* The life force = The actual fire in the woods / The observer Becoming the fire in the woods. I feel the "becoming the life force" is the fulfillment of music - not obsessing over physical artists. Least of all because the life force may be infinite and so the "becoming" would be an endless process, eventually relegating all else.




So ... in answer to your question: we can avoid matter and still exist because whilst music isn't exactly life force but a spoke in its wheel: just as music manifests a medium and synergistically you get a warm sound, a punchy sound, a compressed sound, a flat sound, etc. .... the music is defined as music, the medium is defined as the medium, and similarly our physical bodies are vessels, our consciousness / life force is something different, which animates the body.

All l'm saying is, these are defined as separate things, even if one lives within the other and synergistically the two create a forum member or a punchy sound.

Because life force and physical body are different things:
* Is life force co-eternal with body? No, body is finite. Maybe life force is finite too.
* If life force is finite, and body is finite, then it's quite a coincidence that both should converge at the same time, in the same person. Given that we physically come from biological reproduction, it would mean life force arises from physical processes.
- However, that would mean you can recreate love and hate - archetypal physical emotions - within the laboratory, through physical means. But that is impossible.
- But surely, you can create emotions via drugs and music? Let's be scientific: psychoactive drugs, and music, give rise to neurochemical processes. This is their sympathomimetic effect. So what? Nobody knows how this leads to emotions. OK fair enough, euphoria can be explained by blood vessels dilating when an addict sniffs glue or if you give somebody cocaine they will become lively, right? But feeling euphoric is different to the physical facts of it, it's irreducible by science (or at least the purest emotions such as love and hate are). Make a robot, an exact replica of a human, it won't care if you give it drugs or music or love or nothing. Make an exact replica of me, down to the atomic level. It will not look into the mirror and think "I am me" and mean it is me. I will always be me, and in fact my exact replica will IMO never come to life. The manufactured robot and doppelganger will be lower than a dog. At least a dog appreciates food.
* So we have an alternative. The life force was there before the human body. By implication, then, it is drawn down into us by drugs (tbh, by natural chemical processes too), by music and also by default it spreads out through and animates the body, whether you think life force comes from biology or some mystical existence before the physical body, we can all agree it animates us.
* Therefore l believe we exist (like music) beyond - and before - and right now distinct from yet intertwined within (like a warm sound or punchy sound, an animating force) - matter (like body, or recording medium).

The Music Itself would be independent of its record/reproduction system.
Like our consciousness is beyond our brain, and now is limited by our brain structure,

I should study you in how to be concise, you sum things up pretty well. And yeah, that warm sound or punchy guitar solo, rises up through the night air at the party, into something unique in its own right, like a legendary performance of a well known song at a rock festival. And yeah, separate, larger than the brain, but living within it (it seems so to me as well).

May be if we get out of our bodies (like dying, like in an astral trip) we'd be capable to appreciate THE MUSIC ITSELF instead of the dimensionalized picture of it. We could appreciate the REALITY ITSELF instead of a dimensional (3d "reality" or matter) representation of it.

Yep, you can sometimes hear fantastic music in your dreams, or sensationalised versions of existing songs. I think it eventually goes beyond even music, like, everything melts away into this abstract feeling of bliss. Imagine eating a gateaux, discovering a cool song you haven't heard in 10 years, having Pepsi Cola after a fried chicken, all these things and more ... all melt away into a delocalised feeling of bliss. I would guess it's like David Bowman's journey in "2001: A Space Odyssey", where all the stars become streaks of light and everything seems to merge together.

Regards to drugs... I know they "open the door" that means they open closed perception centers (activate disabled ports and controllers) but they activate that ports quite before we are capable to activate by our own. That's why the people become unable to manage whatever they perceive, and that's why the final effect always ends in a psychodelic loss of structure, because the mind has no maturity enough to acces the plane is perceiving and has not yet the enzymes to assimilate the food that is coming from there.
Besides that, not only people access the other side... but other beings access from there to here through that open door (activated ports) and in the immature mind/soul status (lack of antivirus) they are deeply attacked and unable to do anything... even unable to see those viruses (entities), even unable to believe the're ACTUALLY REAL and NOT illusions or deliriums. That's the issue whe unsing drugs.
We are absolutely capable to create (program) our own controllers to open those ports and activate those controllers, but as in computer programming, the mind has to be trained, wise and mature enough to compose that piece of software. And we're capable to any miracle by our own. Danger free.

Man l totally agree with you. The risk about opening the Doors of Perception is we never know what's beyond, and we don't know how to shut the Doors again. There's a risk of literally blowing the mind and being haunted for life.

BTW what you saw in your legs was the actual granularity of your etheric body. It's real. But you couldn't keep evaluating the hyperstructure due the lack of certain controllers in your system, so your system collapsed by a lack of resources, and a system failure occurred. As a result your camera devices did turn off, and you overclocked making the temp sensor to turn it off... and as you said you "passed out".

Thank you, this is good info.

And, be sure that you don't write just for yourself. I read your lines, with genuine interest

Welcome

[Carol Rein]

You said: "- However, that would mean you can recreate love and hate - archetypal physical emotions - within the laboratory, through physical means. But that is impossible."
Yes, it is impossible through physical means, in our labs. But not impossible in another kind of lab. We've been designed and the reality we experiment day by day, second by second, is being rendered and projected in our minds and there are cosmic processors performing the cosmic task (the religion call them angels by the way) they pour the data into the akasha and our systems (souls if I could name it so) capture it and process the data and interpret the reality as we conceive it (so far as we are able to). But everything is a render... a theatre... an opera. Most philosophers saw that very clearly, Buddha did also, the Christ told the same thing (My Kingdom doesn't belong here), etc...

And... Im not a man, I'm a girl

[Carol Rein]

These threads can be fun, sometimes. But they usually go south.

Now, my philosophy since 2015 .... if it's stable, I like it. PERIOD.

Reason is the only truly stable host I've used. FL studio is cool, but it's not the music making machine reason is. I'm hella disappointed still in version 9 but 8.3 works and works well. Really need to remember this and move on from screwing around (which I've been doing for about 6-7 months)

Yes let's be careful here to avoid losing the north and the common sense.
Regarding Reason, I'm with you. I love Reason and I feel so comfortable with it
I'm still using Reason 4 LOL because the changes in newer versions haven't been essential while I'm related to classical orchestration, and my main device is NN-XT, and I think it hasn't been changed so far...
What do you think, should I upgrade?

[HepCat]

Hi l returned to make two corrections in square brackets:

* The medium ..... = The geographical area where the fire is. Your geospatial awareness. [Your route to the fire in the woods.]

* The music = a talisman to bring in the life force / the music = [Journeying to and] Feeling the heat of fire in the woods

But l see your reply now so l can't edit my previous post (it's kind of an unspoken rule hehe).

You said: "- However, that would mean you can recreate love and hate ... But that is impossible."
Yes, it is impossible through physical means, in our labs. But not impossible in another kind of lab. We've been designed and the reality we experiment day by day, second by second, is being rendered and projected in our minds and there are cosmic processors performing the cosmic task (the religion call them angels by the way) they pour the data into the akasha and our systems (souls if I could name it so) capture it and process the data and interpret the reality as we conceive it (so far as we are able to). But everything is a render... a theatre... an opera. Most philosophers saw that very clearly, Buddha did also, the Christ told the same thing (My Kingdom doesn't belong here), etc...

It's fascinating what you say about angels being conduits of love and other emotions, and how our brains are a laboratory. It's like reality is a mirror, bearing the image of something so intense that the mirror would crack, so it has to be manifested (diffracted) in emanations, from the source, then to etheric beings, and finally to people.

And yes, emanationism l think began with the Neoplatonists like Plotinus? Perhaps before him, with Aristotle. I'm no expert on Greek philosophy but l'd like to be one day. Today, we have M-theory describing 11 dimensions, where the Eastern Peripatetics such as Avicenna described 10 + 1 to rule them all (thank you Google). Compare with the 12 stations of the Kabbalistic Tree of Life. I think the common thread is that there is Infinite, pure existence, and it creates a mirror that doesn't really separately exist (= us) in order to manifest its own reflection (through emanations, i.e. "Intelligences", getting successively physical the farther out they extend).

By the way, what you said about angels being conduits of love, rings true for me as a "Twin Peaks" (David Lynch) fan, because one appears at the end of "Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me", and l interpreted it to be an alchemical transformation of the dead Laura Palmer totally lost and abandoned, and the Agent Dale Cooper who failed to defeat the forces of evil and ended up being captured by them and sent to the same place Laura Palmer ended up in. The angel appears and a beautiful song plays and Laura Palmer regains her soul and l imagine she leaves hand in hand with Dale Cooper because both gain redemption and fall in love in a place beyond the grave. The point is ... the song that plays when the angel appears is called "The Voice of Love" by the genius Angelo Badalamenti.

By the way, it makes sense that a record, like what you call the Akashic records, exists, because l imagine when you go deep enough into the core of infinity, time ceases to exist, so at that point, everything that happens reads like a book, a "Sky record".

Doubtless there's wisdom scattered across many cultures.

And... Im not a man, I'm a girl

Pleased to meet you I'm a guy.

[4filegate]

2016 we've got the CHARACTER Knob on C. Bechstein Digital Grand Software /Kontakt

in the 18th century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_harmonica Animal magnetism (Hypnosis), also known as mesmerism, was the name given by the German doctor Franz Friedrich Anton Mesmer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_magnetism

Inside Reason Akasha e.g."the animal drummer feature" less Midi quantized or send dedicated Midi and let ReGroove finish it
»...that is like your signature«

the foretellers with glass ball is out of order!

[selig]

The number of "dimensions" in the recording format has nothing to do with the density or quality of the data being stored. They all capture the required qualities for music - a 78 disc is exactly as much fun to listen to as a CD as a cassette. There are variations of quality, but if any of them left out a dimension of data you would not recognize the results.

As for the music box, the difference is the random elements involved - it is less perfect, therefore more "human" (warm?).

But computers are ALSO human - they are conceived, designed, and built (and used) by humans, how can they NOT be human? They even crash at random times, and sometimes produce results I'm POSITIVE I had no hand in - we call it a glitch or the "ghost in the machine", but IMO it's the "human" in the design.

[HepCat]

The number of "dimensions" in the recording format has nothing to do with the density or quality of the data being stored. They all capture the required qualities for music ... There are variations of quality, but if any of them left out a dimension of data you would not recognize the results.

As for the music box, the difference is the random elements involved - it is less perfect, therefore more "human" (warm?).

Hi i wasn't talking about bit perfectness. I also said, "maybe" it is so. What l meant was, perhaps you get a more lively, punchy sound from vinyl because of its grooves, maybe that lends to expression, not that it gives better data. Maybe it's just added distortion, making it sound crunchy. I feel it in my stomach, whereas when l hear the same tune MP3-ed on a YouTube video or on a CD, it sounds flat. They say louder sounds better - perhaps the distortion tricks the brain into thinking it's louder.

Whatever it is, l think it adds an extra dimension to the music, like how the music box also adds random elements. As for the music box, the OP would know better than me (l only Wiki'ed it today).

But computers are ALSO human - they are conceived, designed, and built (and used) by humans, how can they NOT be human? They even crash at random times, and sometimes produce results I'm POSITIVE I had no hand in - we call it a glitch or the "ghost in the machine", but IMO it's the "human" in the design.

What l was theorising was that computers are about as dead / alive as the music they play and the humans that operate them. The life force / inspiration, is behind them all and in its own league. I'll leave it to OP to opine further as l don't want to hijack. But yeah, my ideal DAW will be a lens, having randomise tools in order to focus cosmic creative forces onto my circuitboard. It will also allow for happy accidents as you've just described.

[selig]

@ Carol - I almost wish each question was it's own thread, as each are so deep and thought provoking as to potentially dilute the responses when taken as a whole. Which is why my initial reply was simply "great questions"! I didn't know where to begin and didn't want to start 10 parallel conversations (times the number of folks responding) at the risk of skimming the subject of each.

But maybe that was your intention, for all the questions to be taken as a whole, as they do all seem to have a common thread?

Not a criticism, btw, just an observation: it's your thread so do as you wish!

[Carol Rein]

@ Carol - I almost wish each question was it's own thread, as each are so deep and thought provoking as to potentially dilute the responses when taken as a whole. Which is why my initial reply was simply "great questions"! I didn't know where to begin and didn't want to start 10 parallel conversations (times the number of folks responding) at the risk of skimming the subject of each.

But maybe that was your intention, for all the questions to be taken as a whole, as they do all seem to have a common thread?

Not a criticism, btw, just an observation: it's your thread so do as you wish!

Well, It would be a serious abuse from my part if I open (I lost the number) 7 threads?? LOL
You really make me feel happy by saying that, because I feel you deeply went into each question... and I have to admit I wasn't expecting such participation!
The questions works in a whole, but as you said they're deep enough to take them in a particular consideration.
I think that people could take one question (the most resonant for him/her) and dedicate an answer to it. That would be nice
Anyways, I hope not to have crossed the line here with this kind of topic...

[Carol Rein]

10 questions... I had to go back and count them XD

[selig]

@ Carol - I almost wish each question was it's own thread, as each are so deep and thought provoking as to potentially dilute the responses when taken as a whole. Which is why my initial reply was simply "great questions"! I didn't know where to begin and didn't want to start 10 parallel conversations (times the number of folks responding) at the risk of skimming the subject of each.

But maybe that was your intention, for all the questions to be taken as a whole, as they do all seem to have a common thread?

Not a criticism, btw, just an observation: it's your thread so do as you wish!

Well, It would be a serious abuse from my part if I open (I lost the number) 7 threads?? LOL
You really make me feel happy by saying that, because I feel you deeply went into each question... and I have to admit I wasn't expecting such participation!
The questions works in a whole, but as you said they're deep enough to take them in a particular consideration.
I think that people could take one question (the most resonant for him/her) and dedicate an answer to it. That would be nice
Anyways, I hope not to have crossed the line here with this kind of topic...

Oh no, this is an awesome thread. We talk so much about logical issues with limited answers that it's refreshing (and good for the brain) to speak more abstractly. Best part - there are no wrong answers, so there should be no disagreements!

[Carol Rein]

I'm glad it helps to the forum.
I'm happy to have found Reasontalk thank you.

[Marco Raaphorst]

We humans make sense out of what we hear. Even if there's no sense. Music is an interpretation done by the listener while listening.

I pick one question: "Is the digital music alive?" My answer: If the listener feels it's alive then it is alive.

[selig]

"Would be possible to tell a robot deep inside "This is sad".. "this is joy"... "This is love"... playing a keyboard and digitalizing your feelings via MIDI?"

Like some others here I've been watching a lot of Black Mirror, specifically the episode "I'll Be Right Back", as well as the TV shows Humans, Extant, and Westworld, and that idea keeps coming back to me.

Especially on I'll Be Right Back (spoiler alert) where the robot is made to replace a departed loved one, but doesn't quite cover all the bases (including flaws), it made me think about what would happen IF a robot could be made to feel what we call "negative" emotions like sadness, loss, disappointment, etc.

If so, how would that impact their ability to "create", since many artists will tell you it's these "negative" experiences which tend to motivate us more than the "positive" experiences. Or maybe it's the combination, but either way it's not JUST the positive experiences alone that drive our creativity.

In Nashville, a very "songwriter" town, whenever a friend suffers a difficult breakup we always say "at least you'll get a song or two out of it" as a way of "cheering up" the person!

So I would reckon that a robot would have to "feel" (or somehow experience) a wide range of emotions before they could be creative, from an AI perspective.

I have a friend in the SF bay area taking a class in AI (yes, there is such a thing) and I'm pummeling her with questions - this would be a good one to ask - I'll see what she has to say on the subject!

[Carol Rein]

I'll pick a question too XD
"How did Gepetto do to bring Pinocchio to life?"
I'll answer this way: The anima (soul) cannot be created nor destroyed, it just passes from one media into another. That process is called Animation.

When we are creating a music, and image (static or dynamic), a sculpture, a picture, etc, we are pouring our vital force (our etheric), part of our soul is added to the opus. That's why we start an artistic job and at the first moment it is well shaped, fully contoured and filled... but dead (lacking of glow or brilliancy, nothing special comes out of it) but as the hours pass, as the days pass, the opus acquires brilliancy and at certain time it suddenly ignites!!
That's the moment when the spark jumps from the creator to the artwork... and a part of the creator's soul will always be detached from him and permanently attached to the artwork.
That's what the Pinocchio myth is about. An allegory of that animation process.
Animation is not only for moving things, but for all things that has that fluent art (such like classic pictures)-
That process really differentiates between actual art and mere empty collages.
The art, the true art is actually a living thing by itself, it works like a device, INDEPENDENTLY of the people that are perceiving it. A picture of a demon (that is really damned with a negative artistic foce by its artist) will open certain doors in the house where it is hanged up, and it will produce effects in the house regardless of the observers.
The music is even more impactant to the environment because is physically vibrational and the vehicle is more pregnant, so a good or a bad music (true art made) will affect the environment in a very deep way.
Art is more than an imitation or a performance. The art lives by itself, and we artists are just a media for it to manifest from archetypal planes, where it always has been (since the eternity). So the artist and its opus is just a channel for it to manifest temporarily in this plane of existence.

[modecca]

interesting to see we have alot of deep people in this reason community

[6502]

I've used plugins that have no gui - just generic vanilla sliders and buttons like a windows 3.1 application. Then there is Reason where you flip the rack and there are electrical approval stickers, etc. So, a DAW and its plugins, being created by humans can't help but have some life passed into them, like Pinocchio. I get kind of a warm feeling when I use Reason because of this. If the sonic quality was the same but it looked like a Windows 3.1 app, I don't think I would use it. And this applies to all DAWs. I'm just most familiar with Reason (to keep things north ). Having said that, I really like the personality of Reason. If they removed the fake stickers on the back of devices, I would miss them!

[Carol Rein]

interesting to see we have alot of deep people in this reason community

Yes! Unexpected depth! That's so good

[Carol Rein]

I'm just most familiar with Reason (to keep things north ). Having said that, I really like the personality of Reason. If they removed the fake stickers on the back of devices, I would miss them!

Yes!!! Reason has personality. The cables behind, the stickers and all the GUI makes you feel that you're simply managing the real thing.
That's the first thing I loved about Reason when I opened it first time, and I still feel warmth whenever I move and reconnect the cables... perhaps that's because I pass half of my life soldering and connecting cables...
I think that's the main thing that keeps me attached to Reason... and NN-XT of course LOVE IT

I even migrated lots of VST from Kontakt instruments to Reason as *.sf2 by using Extreme Sample Converter, and I made very strong patches that make me so happy!

I won't leave Reason, never ever.