Random thought on Props

[JerrelTheKing]

What are the chances Props would still be in business without the advent of Rack Extensions? What kind of company would they even be now?

[dvdrtldg]

You make it sound like the "advent" of REs was something that descended from the heavens to bail the company out of trouble, rather than a solid business idea that Propellerhead came up with themselves

[fieldframe]

No, this is a completely valid question, and an interesting one at that. If Propellerhead hadn't made the decision to open up the rack and build a platform around it, where would the company be today? I'm sure they'd still be in business, but without third-party support over the last four years, Reason could have faltered. Propellerhead might have gone all-in on mobile apps, concentrating on new versions of Take and Figure as Reason faded into the background.

Reason is in much better shape today than it would have been without Rack Extensions, though I'd say there's still risk. RE has flourished as its own Reason-exclusive market, but there's still very little connection to the outside world. So far, this has worked as a sort of scaled-up version of the original Reason premise: "Everything you need is in this box" became too limiting, so now Reason is "everything you need is in this store." But the outside world doesn't stand still, and thus the SDK can't, either.

So long as Propellerhead keeps updating the SDK so that RE developers can keep up with what's happening in the VST market (Expanse is a great example), Reason will likely do well.

[MannequinRaces]

What are the chances Props would still be in business without the advent of Rack Extensions? What kind of company would they even be now?

My crystal ball says that without Rack Extensions they would have hired more developers and made more internal devices that would have been included in the updates with Reason (think along the lines of Polar, Pulsar, The Echo, Alligator, ART, etc. but more of them).

[stratatonic]

Rack Extensions must be helping Propellerhead with a steady stream of revenue. And there is always a tiny percentage of junkies in all fields that will overspend on stuff for the dream, so Propellerhead must love that.

They must be counting on RE sales as the last two versions of Reasons have had a sale price - which had never happened before. (An official R8 sale and a R9 through an Amazon UK reseller - which could very well be them, or subsidized by them). So their strategy going forward is getting new customers for the Reason platform. Existing owners may have enough REs, or are not interested in expanding Reason through RE purchases, but waiting for a decent upgrade (which increasingly the customer strategy appears to be bypassing several number upgrades).

Propellerhead was cutting edge a decade ago, and tech like ReWire helped keep them in the spotlight. As did, ahem, a large user base that started out using a cracked version of Reason. That "cracked advantage" is losing impact as time goes on, as their last version available is R5. Rewire is losing relevance imo. And Ableton's AbletonLink is likely to be the connectivity standard that ReWire enjoyed last decade. Propellerhead needed to be on the ball with a solution, but it looks like it is not happening.

I could pour over current revenue disclosures, but from what I recall a couple of years ago, it looked like they were doing ok.

Going forward, I can see Reason eventually being ported to iOS - and maybe even the original "rack" version, pre audio - and being linked with the current standard technologies. And with iOS Reason files that can be opened up on desktop. And with mobile Rack Extension in-app purchases. They could even sell expansion packs for iOS Kong/Redrum.

[Loque]

I was surprised that it took so long to open the rack,but things at PH takes longer than on other devs. But shortly i tried some other DAWs with VST and it was awful. I like it, that the RE devs need to put everything in a rack without 100 additional windows where you get lost or fiddeling with nonsense or compatibility of the 3 billion VST standards.

I may not ask my crystal ball, but i expect some long awaited improvements rather than new synths. And that in the next point update.

[Creativemind]

What are the chances Props would still be in business without the advent of Rack Extensions? What kind of company would they even be now?

My crystal ball says that without Rack Extensions they would have hired more developers and made more internal devices that would have been included in the updates with Reason (think along the lines of Polar, Pulsar, The Echo, Alligator, ART, etc. but more of them).

I think you're right. We would've likely seen Polar, Pulsar, Radical Piano, Radical Keys, Synchronous and A-List Acoustic and Electric Guitarist as stock devices.

Polar, Pulsar, Radical Piano in Reason 6.5

Radical Keys, Parsec and Synchronous in Reason 7.

A-List Acoustic and Electric Guitarist in Reason 8.

[fieldframe]

It's possible that Propellerhead might have bundled what are today the first-party REs as stock Reason devices. More likely, though, they wouldn't exist as we know them, and there would be fewer, less specialized devices in their place. Like without RE, I highly doubt they would have ever made a DX7 emulation for the rack.

Polar or Synchronous, though, I could see those being stock devices in a non-RE world.

[rexbrewer]

I think if they included their A-List series (Drummers and Guitarist) into the program it self and did a big promo video on them, I believe more people would actually buy Reason as it would immediately provide new tools for bedroom producers and one man bands. I think they would end up selling more then they would just selling them by themselves as RE.

[dioxide]

I think if they included their A-List series (Drummers and Guitarist) into the program it self and did a big promo video on them, I believe more people would actually buy Reason as it would immediately provide new tools for bedroom producers and one man bands. I think they would end up selling more then they would just selling them by themselves as RE.

I'm glad they didn't, I don't want all this crap cluttering up my hard drive. I've a synths + MIDI kind of musician and I've no interest in drum kits or guitars. That's the strength of REs, it allows them to produce specialist products for specific niches. Likewise I'm sure there are many Reason users that have no interest in the kind of REs that are indispensable to me.

[ezelkow1]

I think if they included their A-List series (Drummers and Guitarist) into the program it self and did a big promo video on them, I believe more people would actually buy Reason as it would immediately provide new tools for bedroom producers and one man bands. I think they would end up selling more then they would just selling them by themselves as RE.

I'm glad they didn't, I don't want all this crap cluttering up my hard drive. I've a synths + MIDI kind of musician and I've no interest in drum kits or guitars. That's the strength of REs, it allows them to produce specialist products for specific niches. Likewise I'm sure there are many Reason users that have no interest in the kind of REs that are indispensable to me.

Then why not make them an optional install, like all other daws extra content. I dont think Ive seen one besides reason that actually forces you to install all of their factory available content

[JerrelTheKing]

You make it sound like the "advent" of REs was something that descended from the heavens to bail the company out of trouble, rather than a solid business idea that Propellerhead came up with themselves

I never suggested or insinuated they were in trouble, nor comment on what kind of business idea it was. Your response never answered the question but instead cast aspersions on the question. Lighten up. Its a simple game of "what if" which some people got.

A lot of great answers besides that one though. Yes I think most Props RE would've been included in versions 7 and 8(especially 8). That being said RE do lighten the load for what they include in updates at least from 7 to 8. Now you can update your experience daily with the right RE and when you want a workflow change you may be able to skip an update like I did from 7 to 9.

[kuhliloach]

Reason would be in trouble without RE's right now. Even if they made better in house tools it would be in trouble. RE's make Reason so much more competitive and functional for completing projects. I've always been very impressed so many top companies decided to make RE's. Amazed really.

Not installing various components would possibly be nice, but even better would be if we could totally hide them from the UI, so we don't have to look at them.

[Dante]

What are the chances Props would still be in business without the advent of Rack Extensions? What kind of company would they even be now?

50/50. Either they would be in business or they would not be.

I would imagine the main factor there would be how many devices of their own they would have added in the meantime.

[JerrelTheKing]

I think if they included their A-List series (Drummers and Guitarist) into the program it self and did a big promo video on them, I believe more people would actually buy Reason as it would immediately provide new tools for bedroom producers and one man bands. I think they would end up selling more then they would just selling them by themselves as RE.

Hmm I can see them rolling this out with 8 the way they rolled out Players with 9. Would've made perfect sense.

[JCBendock]

I think if they included their A-List series (Drummers and Guitarist) into the program it self and did a big promo video on them, I believe more people would actually buy Reason as it would immediately provide new tools for bedroom producers and one man bands. I think they would end up selling more then they would just selling them by themselves as RE.

At the very least follow apples model and offer the devices at a very low price like $29 for the a-list bundle. Sadly, I often feel that the reason recent upgrades have been underwhelming is because the prop developers are too busy developing re rather than advancing the platform. I think it use to be that developers would work year round on an update, but now they divide their time between the two and so we end up with less.

[Nirude]

Yesterday I got this silly idea.
I have not tested Blamsoft Expanse yet but from what I read about it - it seems to be the sh*t. Meaning, this is how a synth should be done
for the RE-platform. Are Props now holding their hands on their faces? (Facepalm)
Did the RE-community, or Blamsoft, just surpassed Props own knowledge about the RE-SDK?
Can Props even make a better sounding or better synth?
...Just a silly idea.

[EdGrip]

The Props don't seem that interested in updating the stock synths. "But Thor!" Yeah, Thor is very powerful and can sound great, but it could do with a GUI spruce-up at least. And it's getting on a bit.
I think, as someone said before, the plan now seems to be to let REs do the heavy lifting device-wise and concentrate on the sequencer and DAW side of things.

[boobytrap]

Without Rack Extensions they could end up just like Sony acid. Expance is an example for that. RE's doing great job. Because last two years they completely mad with iOS apps. And not too much success with that too. Problem is the Host. Since 2011 nothing much happen with reason. Only minor changes as they like. V9 is something than last 3 versions. And that all the time RE give some energy to reason to stay alive. Imagine without all RE, just only reason.and compare with current time line...

[miscend]

People are always attracted to shiny new things but Thor and Subtractor are still as good as ever. Props nailed the sound quality first time round so what we have are real instruments, not just pieces of code that needs constant updating to stay relevant. Good synths never become outdated. Think of all the young EDM producers making new music with vintage Roland synths. The Roland sound has become iconic just like Reason.

[Creativemind]

I think if they included their A-List series (Drummers and Guitarist) into the program it self and did a big promo video on them, I believe more people would actually buy Reason as it would immediately provide new tools for bedroom producers and one man bands. I think they would end up selling more then they would just selling them by themselves as RE.

I'm glad they didn't, I don't want all this crap cluttering up my hard drive. I've a synths + MIDI kind of musician and I've no interest in drum kits or guitars. That's the strength of REs, it allows them to produce specialist products for specific niches. Likewise I'm sure there are many Reason users that have no interest in the kind of REs that are indispensable to me.

Then why not make them an optional install, like all other daws extra content. I dont think Ive seen one besides reason that actually forces you to install all of their factory available content

Good idea...optional.

I missed out 4 Re's didn't I. The PX7, and the 3 A-List Drummers (Studio, Power and Classic Drummer).

So perhaps we'd have 12 new devices in Reason:- Parsec, Polar, Pulsar, PX7, Radical Piano, Radical Keys, Synchronous, A-List Acoustic Guitarist, A-List Electric Guitarist, A-List Studio Drummer, A-List Power Drummer and A-List Classic Drummer.

Although, as good as they are, we do need more important tools in Reason as stock devices such as:- a Transient Designer, a De-Esser (would be good if the Selig De-Esser became a stock device), an Exciter, an 8 band EQ (or more bands), a Multiband Compressor, a Multimeter and a Vectorscope.

[stratatonic]

Sadly, I often feel that the reason recent upgrades have been underwhelming is because the prop developers are too busy developing re rather than advancing the platform...they divide their time between the two and so we end up with less.

But if you have the money to spend, you WILL have MORE! Not less.
MORE is what it is all about. MORE is the Propellerhead strategy. Ernst said it himself.**
And it is not just Propellerhead. Everyone is doing it. There's MORE money to be made in individual sales of things than advancing the platform (which has pretty much hit the saturation point for most DAWs - there's not much more that can be done to significantly improve a DAW these days imo)


.

**Ernst's MORE proclamation at 15:15:

[JerrelTheKing]

I think if they included their A-List series (Drummers and Guitarist) into the program it self and did a big promo video on them, I believe more people would actually buy Reason as it would immediately provide new tools for bedroom producers and one man bands. I think they would end up selling more then they would just selling them by themselves as RE.

I'm glad they didn't, I don't want all this crap cluttering up my hard drive. I've a synths + MIDI kind of musician and I've no interest in drum kits or guitars. That's the strength of REs, it allows them to produce specialist products for specific niches. Likewise I'm sure there are many Reason users that have no interest in the kind of REs that are indispensable to me.

Then why not make them an optional install, like all other daws extra content. I dont think Ive seen one besides reason that actually forces you to install all of their factory available content

Good idea...optional.

I missed out 4 Re's didn't I. The PX7, and the 3 A-List Drummers (Studio, Power and Classic Drummer).

So perhaps we'd have 12 new devices in Reason:- Parsec, Polar, Pulsar, PX7, Radical Piano, Radical Keys, Synchronous, A-List Acoustic Guitarist, A-List Electric Guitarist, A-List Studio Drummer, A-List Power Drummer and A-List Classic Drummer.

Although, as good as they are, we do need more important tools in Reason as stock devices such as:- a Transient Designer, a De-Esser (would be good if the Selig De-Esser became a stock device), an Exciter, an 8 band EQ (or more bands), a Multiband Compressor, a Multimeter and a Vectorscope.

This is another good point. If Props was just about creating better workflows and improving the system than yes they should've definitely added these things on the 8 update. There is only 1 De Esser available on the whole Reason platform and its a RE. That really goes a long way supporting the theory that RE are saving them or at least doing the work for them.

[chimp_spanner]

I know where I'd be without RE's; significantly better off financially haha. But hey it's a good idea. They've tapped into the whole micro(ish)transaction mechanic of iOS. I'm far more likely to buy 3 things at 19 euros than one at 60. And overall I think they're good value. Whether they opened it up to third party devs or not I don't doubt that we would've seen some kind of "in app purchases" eventually.

And to whoever said iOS - yes please. There's no environment on iOS that even comes close to reason in terms of quality or stability. I've spent many months trying to get things to talk to each other properly with MIDI and audio and tbh it's just a nightmare. PH would clean up if they released Reason as an app. It's the stuff of dreams.