Announcing Reason 13

[Creativemind]

ppl make music, features don't.

The amount of times my creativity has been stopped in it's tracks by not being able to carry on due to a missing feature though, one that immediately springs to mind is not being able to audition a sample in the browser in tempo with the track or being able to 'fit to tempo' a sample automatically.

[luckygreen]

...
Reason updates are rare and cost $199 ...

That much?! I bought Reason 12 not a year ago. Didn't have to update yet.

For the Ableton Live update form 11 to 12 I paid like EUR 125,00. (roughly USD 135,00.) And that update was huge. Really impressive. Almost like a completely overhauled DAW. New features everywhere. And Ableton 11 already had like 10 times more features than Reason 12 ...

Sigh. I. Need. To. Stop. Complaining.

...
Reason upgrades are usually $99 or less when on sale (such as Black Friday -- I actually got my R12 upgrade for $67 from jrrshop).
...

USD 67,00 still seems a bit steep for what 13 seems to be, but I very much like the basic concept of Reason and I like the people like Ludvig and Ryan and Mattias. So I'm ok with that update price. I guess I'll have to wait then till next BF.

[spacepluk]

You can get it for half if you wait for a sale.

[mcatalao]

Logic 11 is announced and shows how far behind Reason is …

Stem separation
AI bass
AI keyboard
Announced so far and Free upgrade for existing users

So freaking AI taking the fun of music making?

WTF, i want robots to clean my house and make my food, in music they should tune the guitar, take care of freaking audio editing, and engraving (scoring stuff that I sing and write)...

[Reminiscence]

Wait, don't they stop supporting the previous version once a point update is done? Not like ver.12 fixes are gonna come into play down the line once 13 is released?

I never understand this question I hear a lot. So you want an update to Reason 12.4 when we've moved past 12.4 and on say 13? New features are added in new versions such as if something is added to 12.4 then it's in 12.5. I don't quite understand how you wish them to add something to a version previous than the latest one when that's impossible?

fix not add. subtract not divide.

[chimp_spanner]

Stem separation
AI bass
AI keyboard
Announced so far and Free upgrade for existing users

So freaking AI taking the fun of music making?

WTF, i want robots to clean my house and make my food, in music they should tune the guitar, take care of freaking audio editing, and engraving (scoring stuff that I sing and write)...

Not to derail the thread too much but I've kinda veered wildly between hating and loving the tech. Like the other day, I wanted to hear what it thought Dubstep/Riddim Cyber Metal would sound like. And I *really* liked the output, so much so I picked up my guitar, and remade it all from scratch and then started making it what I wanted it to be. Realised that I liked the snare in the generated version so I chucked it into Rip-X, yoinked a one-shot out of the drum stem and overlaid that onto my Superior 3 kit. Honestly, stuff like that gets me VERY excited.

The flipside is that I know some people will just hit a button and say "look what I made" but I maintain that a musician or at least someone with real musical understand will get more out of the tech than a non-musician. Whether it's in their ability to recognise what works, or to adapt and re-interpret/re-record.

I remember an old Star Trek Next Gen episode where all the kids were playing with these little orbs that created the music they heard in their head. I think there's the potential for us to be at that level of music making. Imagine it, hear it, jam with it, have a conversation with it and produce in some really interesting ways. Not sure we're there yet, and there are huge ethical hurdles to overcome. But I'm trying to look on the optimistic side.

...so much for not derailing

[Reminiscence]

He's right, Super Mario is AI right?

[jjpscott01]

Stem separation
AI bass
AI keyboard
Announced so far and Free upgrade for existing users

If RS announced Reason 13 with these features, I guarantee users would be complaining that RS is focusing on AI gimmicks instead of workflow features (sequencer, browser, etc.).

Yeah count me in as someone who would think this update sucks. There are already tons of stem separation software's on the market and I have no interest in AI features. I myself love what was announced in the Reason 13 update.

[Reminiscence]

But an automated instrument is better than a Player? No pun intended. If you use a DAW as an instrument, maybe an AI friend can add some backing tracks? I mean, John Lennon is not with us, and neither Jim Morrison, but at least we got an AI friend when we need it. Her.

[Marc64]

ppl make music, features don't.

The amount of times my creativity has been stopped in it's tracks by not being able to carry on due to a missing feature though, one that immediately springs to mind is not being able to audition a sample in the browser in tempo with the track or being able to 'fit to tempo' a sample automatically.

Well ppl have been able to create music with less and that didn't stop them, it more likely triggers thinking and the inventive way to do stuff.

[QVprod]

ppl make music, features don't.

The amount of times my creativity has been stopped in it's tracks by not being able to carry on due to a missing feature though, one that immediately springs to mind is not being able to audition a sample in the browser in tempo with the track or being able to 'fit to tempo' a sample automatically.

That’s certainly a nice feature to have but, in all seriousness, if that was enough to stop your creativity in its tracks, there’s probably something else killing your motivation that isn’t related to Reason.

[sdst]

maybe they can remove the limit in the combinator, at least 64 controls

[Billy+]

I'm Still Loving R11 RRP In Live

[kitekrazy]

Stem separation
AI bass
AI keyboard
Announced so far and Free upgrade for existing users

....and backed by a multi-billion dollar company. That might make just a little bit of difference in resources available.

As an owner of Logic Pro, I am certainly happy about the free upgrade, but I think it's misguided to try to compare RS with Apple in any aspect.

It's also proprietary. Throw in that price of Apple hardware and you got a pricey DAW. Then Apple decides how long you can use that hardware.

[kitekrazy]

...
Reason updates are rare and cost $199 ...

That much?! I bought Reason 12 not a year ago. Didn't have to update yet.

For the Ableton Live update form 11 to 12 I paid like EUR 125,00. (roughly USD 135,00.) And that update was huge. Really impressive. Almost like a completely overhauled DAW. New features everywhere. And Ableton 11 already had like 10 times more features than Reason 12 ...

Sigh. I. Need. To. Stop. Complaining.

...
Reason upgrades are usually $99 or less when on sale (such as Black Friday -- I actually got my R12 upgrade for $67 from jrrshop).
...

USD 67,00 still seems a bit steep for what 13 seems to be, but I very much like the basic concept of Reason and I like the people like Ludvig and Ryan and Mattias. So I'm ok with that update price. I guess I'll have to wait then till next BF.

Live Suite upgrade recently was under $200 for me.
Cubase upgrade was $99 with the benefit of 3 machines and no dongle.
Then there's Bitwig which I call the Waves of DAWs if you want to stay current which is expensive.

Some developers will throw in new effects or instruments to get you to upgrade and hopefully you ignore the lack of workflow updates.

[kitekrazy]

So have they come up with a way to store some of those RE samples on another drive. I have 15GB of OS space taken up by REs. If you use your system for other things even a 500GB drive is stretching it. I stopped buying sample based REs.

[crimsonwarlock]

So have they come up with a way to store some of those RE samples on another drive. I have 15GB of OS space taken up by REs. If you use your system for other things even a 500GB drive is stretching it. I stopped buying sample based REs.

I have my whole Reason installation, including all REs, on my E-drive. Not difficult to do, at least on Windows.

[DaveyG]

So have they come up with a way to store some of those RE samples on another drive. I have 15GB of OS space taken up by REs. If you use your system for other things even a 500GB drive is stretching it. I stopped buying sample based REs.

My RE folder is about 40Gig but it's SymLinked to another drive, as is the factory soundbank folder. Works well on Windows but I seem to recall reading that you can't do the same on a Mac. RS really should just add an RE location setting in the prefs menu. Putting huge data files on the OS drive is just rude in this day and age.

[luckygreen]

Live Suite upgrade recently was under $200 for me.
Cubase upgrade was $99 with the benefit of 3 machines and no dongle.
Then there's Bitwig which I call the Waves of DAWs if you want to stay current which is expensive.

Some developers will throw in new effects or instruments to get you to upgrade and hopefully you ignore the lack of workflow updates.

Right. Now I remember: that Live Suite update to version 12 was a BF offer in November last year. Basically you had to sign the contract on Black Friday that you will pay the fee as soon as Live 12 gets released. So when it was released I received an e-mail telling me to pay. I payed and received my Live 12 license. So yapp, that ~ 125,00 fee was in fact a BF offer. (Dang! in fact it was EUR 159,00 .. just looking at that invoice ..)

So that puts it into perspective. And lets be real: I will pay the EUR 99,00 BF-price for the R13 update. Again, I like Reason and even if I'm a bit disappointed by what we know for now about the comming update, I like to fiddle around with new toys. That's a given.

[WaxTrax]

It's also proprietary. Throw in that price of Apple hardware and you got a pricey DAW. Then Apple decides how long you can use that hardware.

There are low-end and used Macs that can be had for a lot less than brand-new top-end Macs. Especially since transitioning to Apple Silicon, even the Macs at the bottom of the spectrum are quite powerful.

Microsoft also decides how long you can use hardware -- Windows 11 dropped support for several older machines lacking more modern features. This is no different.

New software, just like new hardware, is a choice and (in a non-business context) a matter of personal preference. Unless you do everything with Linux and open source audio production software, you have to pay to play in one form or another. How you decide to do that is up to you. Some people don't mind the "Apple tax" because they prefer the overall ecosystem, but don't believe that the same thing doesn't happen in the land of Microsoft.

[luckygreen]

My RE folder is about 40Gig but it's SymLinked to another drive, as is the factory soundbank folder. Works well on Windows but I seem to recall reading that you can't do the same on a Mac. RS really should just add an RE location setting in the prefs menu. Putting huge data files on the OS drive is just rude in this day and age.

That!

I did symlink the Reason folders like crazy. To keep track of what I did I made some notes.

Code: Select all

(((1)))
- Factory Sound Banks
- Remote
C:\ProgramData\Propellerhead Software
D:\D\Audio-Libs\RS1\Propellerhead Software
(((2)))
- Optional Content like Klang, humana, Drum Supply, Loop Supply, etc.
C:\Users\XXX\Music\Propellerhead Content
D:\D\Audio-Libs\RS2\Propellerhead Content
(((3)))
- Template Songs
C:\Users\XXX\Music\Reason 12
D:\D\Audio-Libs\RS2\Reason 12
(((4)))
- Favorites
- Preferences
- RackExtensions
C:\Users\XXX\AppData\Roaming\Propellerhead Software
D:\D\Audio-Libs\RS2\Propellerhead Software
(((5)))
- Browser Fast-Search Index file
- Graphics Cache
- Thumbnails
C:\Users\XXX\AppData\Local\Propellerhead Software
D:\D\Audio-Libs\RS4\Propellerhead Software

For that exact reason I do not understand why Reason does not support FLAC lossless compression. I converted all my samples into FLAC to save half of my disk space. Only for use in Reason I have to convert a sample back because Reason is the only pro audio software in the whole universe that can't be bothered to handle FLAC. sigh.

[Reminiscence]

At least you can make music, not giving you any flack.

[rupfox]

Stem separation
AI bass
AI keyboard
Announced so far and Free upgrade for existing users

So freaking AI taking the fun of music making?

WTF, i want robots to clean my house and make my food, in music they should tune the guitar, take care of freaking audio editing, and engraving (scoring stuff that I sing and write)...

Well Reason DOES have "players" that are algorithmic. They could improve those with ai. I don't view it as taking the fun out of music making. As much fun as making music is, there is also a lot of tedium. Sometimes I have a great melody in my head and I record it while trying to find a synth. However I might have absolutely no inspiration for a drum track. I've tried using beatmap and it's very hit or miss. A good, reliable AI substitute would be nice. I've also tried using bassline generator and have never been able to get anything musical out of it.

One thing I'm surprised hasn't been done yet is an AI program that takes your loop and makes an arrangement out of it, while adding ear candy. I find making risers, stutters and transitions boring and tedious at times.

[madmacman]

I'm Still Loving R11 RRP In Live

For what it‘s worth, the RRP has significantly improved with R12 in both, memory usage and size. Iirc the size of the RRP in R11 was roughly 400MB on my Mac, while it‘s now roundabout 50MB. Assumably due to improved modularization and re-use of Reason core libraries.

[EnochLight]

I'm Still Loving R11 RRP In Live

I almost would if it wasn't for the fact that Ableton Live's performance on my PC is a miserable pile of dogshit. It's like Reason and Live reversed roles - I originally bought Ableton Live 11 because Reason 12's launch day performance was unusable on my machine. Now Reason performs rock solid and smooth, whereas Live performs like ass. Go figure!