Do you still use the MClass series?

[ShelLuser]

Hi gang!

I'm currently on the road and logged onto my PC at home using a VPN (my own, powered by FreeBSD & OpenVPN, it's a long (offtopic) story ). My laptop simply isn't powerful enough for this (by choice; all I need is MS Office and all I wanted was the ability to play Minecraft, which I can) so this allows me to experiment & play a little with my gear at home.

Which also makes me think back about stuff... When I started with Reason 4 I was impressed that the MClass series were basically part of the default setup. That is.. if I actually do remember this correctly. I always admired this about Reason vs Live because Reason actually gave you tools which were ready to use, Live otoh more or less leaves you swimming. That is not a complaint because in my opinion both products excel at what they do, but I couldn't help but notice.

Even now, enjoying Reason 10, I still have the MClass series set up within my master device at almost the same default settings as I once found on Reason 4 (I think they removed them as default between 4 and 6?).

In case you're wondering:

mclass.jpg (141.68 KiB) Viewed 2624 times

Now... in the mean time I picked up the Mix & Mastering Rig 4 which left me quite impressed (I still am, devices like the FET compressor are IMO really good!) but it also left me wondering. Yes, I know I wonder waay after the facts because most of the stuff I am discovering and enjoying now isn't exactly new, but hey...

So does anyone still use the MClass series sometimes?

As mentioned it's a standard part of my default setup (see screenshot above) but not enabled by default (still often enough), also because I pretty much always use Reason rewired into Live (though I also do plenty of solo sessions as of late) and even despite having a Rig with some seriously impressive devices I for one can't help keeping the MClass around as well. Even though... Even though I seriously admire the stuff you can do with the Reason mixer... coming from Live that thing never stopped to amaze and impress me, I love it (it's actually one of the reasons I got persuaded into buying the M&M rig).

Alas, enough blabbering on my end

Thanks in advance for voting and/or commenting. I'm honestly curious...

PS: I take 'using' a bit broadly.. so if they're a part of your setup, even in bypass mode, then I'd still account that for using.

[DParris]

Yep, I use the compressor pretty frequently when I want finer control over the attack times than what the channel strip can offer. I use the EQ occasionally for high-q corrective stuff, although more and more I'm using dynamic EQ for stuff like that these days.

The stereo imager comes out once in a blue moon, normally for when I have a stereo source file and need to center the bass frequencies. I never use it for widening effects.

The maximizer, never. I'm into big dynamic ranges rather than loudness. Even when I do want to knock down some unnecessary transients, the maximizer has never sounded good to me. It's gritty and seems to collapse the mix down.

[guitfnky]

I chose Other, since “almost never” isn’t an option. probably pull one in once every 20-30 projects. I didn’t think the sporadic option was accurate either, in my case.

[Oquasec]

Oh hell yes.

[ShelLuser]

I chose Other, since “almost never” isn’t an option. probably pull one in once every 20-30 projects. I didn’t think the sporadic option was accurate either, in my case.

Good point, something I'll (try to) keep in mind with another poll if I start one again. It's always difficult to come up with vote options with cover (nearly) everything

Thanks for your comment!

[Kalm]

I only use the stereo imager to mono out bass/sub material or expand mid range. Other than, maybe to take out drums in samples.

[Loque]

I sometimes use the Compressor as an envelope follower and rarly the Maximizer to push a sound a bit and its soft limiter. Sometimes the Stereo Imager to mono the bass. Never use the EQ.

I never really liked the sound of the Compressor and rather chose the Scream4 Tape or Pulverizer here and there. In future i will use the SSLs more often, especially the Master Compressor for my bus channels or in the master at the position of MY choice. .

I use them more often, if i make sounds for others, because they probably do not have my choices of devices.

[aeox]

I use all of them a LOT. The maximizer never gets used on the mastering section though. I use it on drums, synths, etc. (like Loque said) It's good for pushing aggressive sounds or on the kick/snare buss when a kick and snare hit at the same time to keep the peak from hitting the mastering limiter super hard.

They are always my first option because of extremely low CPU usage. If I can't get the results I'm looking for with any stock devices, I move on to a RE.

[Zac]

Sure. They use next to no cpu. MClass comp for general light duties and as part of a multistage dynamic set up. Stereo imager for monoing below certain freq and general splitting duties. Eq for the occasional fairly narrow cut.

[antic604]

Not the EQ, but the rest of them - almost always.

[PhillipOrdonez]

The maximiser for the soft clip gets used all the time and as a brick wall safety device on the master.

Regarding your live comment: I think they offer analogous devices unlike what you stated?

[diminished]

as a brick wall safety device on the master.

This, until I slap CPU hogs like Ozone on top.
I use the EQ for eq'ing the sidechain for triggering bus compression.

As well as any of them when they are used in stock/ReFill combinators.

Usually I don't have any need for widening/narrowing, but when I do, the first tool I try is the stereo imager.

[selig]

The Stereo Imager is glued to my startup song as a side chain filter for the master compressor.
I also prefer the Compressor as an envelope follower to any other option in Reason to date.
Haven't used the other two in years, as I've long ago found better options.

[miscend]

The Mclass Stereo imager does nothing for me. Whatever processing it does has artefacts and doesn't do a convincing wide stereo image. I use the freeware Ozone Imager it's honestly better.

Even after all these years the Mclass compressor is really good but I don't use it as much as I should! The Mclass EQ is good too. I just tend to get new tools and completely forget about the old stuff.

[PhillipOrdonez]

as a brick wall safety device on the master.

This, until I slap CPU hogs like Ozone on top.
I use the EQ for eq'ing the sidechain for triggering bus compression.

As well as any of them when they are used in stock/ReFill combinators.

Usually I don't have any need for widening/narrowing, but when I do, the first tool I try is the stereo imager.

I don't bother with ozone on the master when composing or mixing. Unnecessary processor strain.

[diminished]

This, until I slap CPU hogs like Ozone on top.
I use the EQ for eq'ing the sidechain for triggering bus compression.

As well as any of them when they are used in stock/ReFill combinators.

Usually I don't have any need for widening/narrowing, but when I do, the first tool I try is the stereo imager.

I don't bother with ozone on the master when composing or mixing. Unnecessary processor strain.

Yes, that's what I said or at least tried to say. Until the end, a simple MClass Maximizer will do just for safety.

[motuscott]

The Stereo Imager is glued to my startup song as a side chain filter for the master compressor.

Could you describe this technique?

[selig]

I don't bother with ozone on the master when composing or mixing. Unnecessary processor strain.

Yes, that's what I said or at least tried to say. Until the end, a simple MClass Maximizer will do just for safety.

I prefer to know when clipping is happening and correct it at the source rather than impose the sound of a brick wall limiter on a mix in progress (or an arrangement in progress). There's nothing to actually "protect" - clipping won't hurt anything, but my target peak level for mixes is between -6 and -3dBFS, so if I'm getting out of control I prefer to hear the clipping and fix it. Not saying my way is better or worse than any other, just sharing a different point of view!

[selig]

The Stereo Imager is glued to my startup song as a side chain filter for the master compressor.

Could you describe this technique?

The technique is used most often to balance the effect of the compressor for kick and snare hits, using the HP filter in the Stereo Imager to adjust low end sensitivity so both kick and snare produce equal amounts of gain reduction. The results are more low end overall in the mix, even with 2-4 dB gain reduction (my typical target). I use slowest attack/fastest release and low ratio 90% of the time - learned this in the mid 1980s on the SSL mix bus compressor and still haven't found a better approach other than adding the side chain trick. Only exception is on more naturalistic mixes (pure acoustic projects in particular) where I'll use auto release instead of the fastest release.

[diminished]

Yes, that's what I said or at least tried to say. Until the end, a simple MClass Maximizer will do just for safety.

I prefer to know when clipping is happening and correct it at the source rather than impose the sound of a brick wall limiter on a mix in progress (or an arrangement in progress). There's nothing to actually "protect" - clipping won't hurt anything, but my target peak level for mixes is between -6 and -3dBFS, so if I'm getting out of control I prefer to hear the clipping and fix it. Not saying my way is better or worse than any other, just sharing a different point of view!

That's how it should be!
I am one of those people though who mix into the (SSL Bus) compressor and try to establish a nice and finished sounding mix asap.
Now the problem I encounter with this "style", one which the "right" way you describe doesn't produce, that new instruments - in order to be heard while recording - require much more volume than the rest. The MClass Maximizer with soft clipping helps temporarily with the audibility (added harmonics, more pleasant than clipping distortion) while recording in hot levels.
Once recorded, I mix immediately to appropriate Levels and don't trigger MClass Max anymore.
I hope this makes sense.

[selig]

I prefer to know when clipping is happening and correct it at the source rather than impose the sound of a brick wall limiter on a mix in progress (or an arrangement in progress). There's nothing to actually "protect" - clipping won't hurt anything, but my target peak level for mixes is between -6 and -3dBFS, so if I'm getting out of control I prefer to hear the clipping and fix it. Not saying my way is better or worse than any other, just sharing a different point of view!

That's how it should be!
I am one of those people though who mix into the (SSL Bus) compressor and try to establish a nice and finished sounding mix asap.
Now the problem I encounter with this "style", one which the "right" way you describe doesn't produce, that new instruments - in order to be heard while recording - require much more volume than the rest. The MClass Maximizer with soft clipping helps temporarily with the audibility (added harmonics, more pleasant than clipping distortion) while recording in hot levels.
Once recorded, I mix immediately to appropriate Levels and don't trigger MClass Max anymore.
I hope this makes sense.

So you swallowed a spider to catch the fly - why did you swallow the fly? (children's story reference). You're saying you add the limiter to fix the problems you created by adding the compressor before the mix was balanced? Or did I totally mis-read that?
I still find that mixing with as little as possible for as long as possible gives the best results for me, that way I'm not "polishing turds" or fooling myself. With my approach I can record with hot levels and still not clip - that's the whole point of doing it the way I do it. I seldom clip, and when I do I'm alerted to it instantly so I can correct it. By keeping levels low overall to start, I never have to deal with all this other stuff for the most part - saves time and lets me keep focused on the performance and mix rather than the levels, if that makes sense. Just trying to keep my life simple…

[FLVZ]

Use the compressor in literally everywhere song where simple compression in a "does what it says on the tin" kinda manner is required.

The Maximiser is used literally in every session. I'm yet to encounter a better softclipper than the one on the maximiser (for the CPU hit anyway), sounds great for clipping drums and bass especially after running through distortion to regain control of dynamics with brute force.

The EQ i find really resonant and is perfect for ringing out frequencies for subtractive EQ so usually found at the end of the inserts getting rid of dirt & mud

Stereo imager lives on the mastering strip and has its uses for taming crazy wide basses which is something i tend to like in my production.

Overall they get me mileage due to be super CPU friendly

[diminished]

That's how it should be!
I am one of those people though who mix into the (SSL Bus) compressor and try to establish a nice and finished sounding mix asap.
Now the problem I encounter with this "style", one which the "right" way you describe doesn't produce, that new instruments - in order to be heard while recording - require much more volume than the rest. The MClass Maximizer with soft clipping helps temporarily with the audibility (added harmonics, more pleasant than clipping distortion) while recording in hot levels.
Once recorded, I mix immediately to appropriate Levels and don't trigger MClass Max anymore.
I hope this makes sense.

So you swallowed a spider to catch the fly - why did you swallow the fly? (children's story reference). You're saying you add the limiter to fix the problems you created by adding the compressor before the mix was balanced? Or did I totally mis-read that?
I still find that mixing with as little as possible for as long as possible gives the best results for me, that way I'm not "polishing turds" or fooling myself. With my approach I can record with hot levels and still not clip - that's the whole point of doing it the way I do it. I seldom clip, and when I do I'm alerted to it instantly so I can correct it. By keeping levels low overall to start, I never have to deal with all this other stuff for the most part - saves time and lets me keep focused on the performance and mix rather than the levels, if that makes sense. Just trying to keep my life simple…

Well put, except that it's the overall hotness of the mix and not the bus compressor that is the root of the problems.
It's a psychological thing, to want things polished and ready to release as soon as possible and achieve good loudness on regular listening levels - and a trap at the same time. A trap where the maximizer at the end occasionally helps.
The easiest solution is to just turn the speaker/headphone volume up while mixing and leave enough headroom to 0dBFS.
I promise to be better in the future, I swear!

[Desmondblack]

I use the MClass for sidechain, interesting that nobody else mentioned that here... I prefer it to sidechaining to the SSL as I can do multiband. Are there perhaps better ways of doing this?

[Boombastix]

I use the EQ for 2-4dB wide band correction.
I use the comp for side chain CV out
I use the comp on piano - found that it can bring out the attack nicely for it to be heard in the mix.