The, think up a good financing / subscription model thread, ...

[avasopht]

Edit: now discussing financing as well, as that better describes the examples I have and may generate more ideas and fruitful discussion

I notice a disdain for subscription full stop, even without considering different options. So let's discuss this subject more thoroughly.

Option 1: full license with 1 year of updates
Visual Assist allows you to purchase a license with 1 year of updates. It's in essence a subscription to updates, but you get to purchase a lifelong license. I call it a subscription because your updates are for a year, so it's not tied to the version number, but time of purchase (which is in effect a subscription).

Option 2: same old license OR lease
This is basically the same as you have now, but with an additional option for people to lease a license for a period of time. The lease gives them access to the latest version, whatever it is, but it is not a permanent license. Overall it would cost no more than purchasing every version when it comes out.

Option 3: same old license OR Lease/pay down
This option is like option 2. The only difference is that once you've paid the full amount of a purchase (or upgrade if you already have an old license), you receive a license.

For example, a new customer would have to have spent the full £450 (or so) in leasing to qualify for a full license. With this option you end up with the latest version at the end (note: it couldn't be capped at the version you started with as you may not be able to open your projects).

If you already have a license then you would just have pay the amount of an upgrade.

One issue with this is that versions are not released at predictable time increments, so this option might not be feasible.

--

What solid critique can you offer to these options, and what better options can you come up with?

Please if you want to discuss whether a subscription gives them no incentive to add features in a timely manner start a new thread about it as it would derail any decent discussion Thank you.

[Social Exodus]

I like Cakewalk's way with SONAR. You can pay for a full year, or a bit more for month by month and you get to keep everything you've paid for up until you duck out. So say you bought a year in January 2017, you'd get (and be able to keep) every monthly update until January 2018. If you renew, this keeps going until you decide not to renew and then you get to keep whatever releases you paid for. No disabling, no trickery. If you do stop subscribing, and later come back -- you get all the latest updates and the cycle renews. I don't know if Cakewalk is still offering this or not, but when my yearly renewal came up, they offered to let me pay $79 for Lifetime updates, meaning I never have to renew again -- ever.

I don't see how you can beat that in the subscription software game personally.

[eusti]

For some reason subscriptions do not sit well with me... I - most likely - would stay with whatever last non subscription version is offered and be done.

D.

[stratatonic]

I notice a disdain for subscription full stop, even without considering different options. So let's discuss this subject more thoroughly.

Here's a cut and paste from Softube:

Should I Subscribe or Buy Perpetual Licenses?

The advantages of a monthly subscription:

Lower entry cost
Get additional plug-ins at no upgrade cost (when future Volumes are released)

The advantages of buying perpetual licenses:

Own your plug-in licenses for life
Get additional plug-ins at a discounted rate
Lower cost in the long run

The advantages of a 12-month subscription:

Get a year of use for the price of ten months
Get additional plug-ins at no upgrade cost (when future Volumes are released)


.

I don't see anything here to warrant a "the sky is falling" response.
Most companies are fair in the subscription model, knowing that they could lose out on a small(er) user base. The industry leaders in their fields - Adobe, Avid, etc play their user base for as much as they can.

I don't care one way or another. My software will continue to function if Propellerhead comes up with a subscription model. All I hope is that they keep the 129 upgrade cost from whatever version you are on , as I tend to skip a version here and there depending on perceived value of upgrade or current exchange rates.

[joeyluck]

As long as the ability to make the traditional upgrade purchase is still in place, I'm open to the idea!

[ScuzzyEye]

Allegorithmic has what I consider to be the best subscription plan (others may be doing the same). You can buy their software for $299, or subscribe for $19.90 a month. You can pause your subscription at any time, at the end of the month your software stops working, but as soon as you pay another $19.90, it works again. You always have access to the latest version. If it was just that, I'd be cool. But also once you make 16 subscription payments ($318.40), you get a full license of the current version. When a paid upgrade comes out, you need to subscribe for long enough to cover the upgrade cost, and then you receive that version's license permanently.

So basically it's a payment plan with 6.5% interest, but with no penalties for stopping payments part way through. If the Prop did this, I'd have no problems at all.

[avasopht]

Allegorithmic has what I consider to be the best subscription plan (others may be doing the same). You can buy their software for $299, or subscribe for $19.90 a month. You can pause your subscription at any time, at the end of the month your software stops working, but as soon as you pay another $19.90, it works again. You always have access to the latest version. If it was just that, I'd be cool. But also once you make 16 subscription payments ($318.40), you get a full license of the current version. When a paid upgrade comes out, you need to subscribe for long enough to cover the upgrade cost, and then you receive that version's license permanently.

So basically it's a payment plan with 6.5% interest, but with no penalties for stopping payments part way through. If the Prop did this, I'd have no problems at all.

Yes, that would be my option #3.

Didn't Propellerhead (or maybe ImageLine) offer a similar option in the past? though more of a paying down option?

[Soft Enerji]

I like Cakewalk's way with SONAR. You can pay for a full year, or a bit more for month by month and you get to keep everything you've paid for up until you duck out. So say you bought a year in January 2017, you'd get (and be able to keep) every monthly update until January 2018. If you renew, this keeps going until you decide not to renew and then you get to keep whatever releases you paid for. No disabling, no trickery. If you do stop subscribing, and later come back -- you get all the latest updates and the cycle renews. I don't know if Cakewalk is still offering this or not, but when my yearly renewal came up, they offered to let me pay $79 for Lifetime updates, meaning I never have to renew again -- ever.

I don't see how you can beat that in the subscription software game personally.

This ^ A no brainer!

[Kaosis]

Allegorithmic has what I consider to be the best subscription plan (others may be doing the same). You can buy their software for $299, or subscribe for $19.90 a month. You can pause your subscription at any time, at the end of the month your software stops working, but as soon as you pay another $19.90, it works again. You always have access to the latest version. If it was just that, I'd be cool. But also once you make 16 subscription payments ($318.40), you get a full license of the current version. When a paid upgrade comes out, you need to subscribe for long enough to cover the upgrade cost, and then you receive that version's license permanently.

So basically it's a payment plan with 6.5% interest, but with no penalties for stopping payments part way through. If the Prop did this, I'd have no problems at all.

This would be the only "subscription" model I think I could handle. There's so many subscriptions out there as it is and I can't stand it, because it's anti-consumerism at its finest. If you don't have a worthwhile update then that's on you, and not the person you're trying to sell it to.

It's like how video games these days are built then dissected into DLC on day 1.

[aisling]

For some reason subscriptions do not sit well with me... I - most likely - would stay with whatever last non subscription version is offered and be done.

D.

This!

[miscend]

I think rent to own would be good for Rack Extensions. Pay £10 a month for a rack extension until you have paid the full amount then it's yours to keep. If you miss a payment then you loose your licence.

[Ostermilk]

My favourite is:

I wait for the vendor to make an upgraded version of the software and I agree to pay for it if and when the benefits of the new version represent value for money to me.

Very much like the current model.

[zeebot]

I have an Adobe subscription and get use of Lightroom, Photoshop, lots of apps and the creative cloud for a small monthly fee and I have no probs at all using subscription software. If props were to do it they'd need to offer lots of goodies and lots of updates. Adode are always throwing out free stuff for subscribers to keep them interested.

[FlowerSoldier]

I have an Adobe subscription and get use of Lightroom, Photoshop, lots of apps and the creative cloud for a small monthly fee and I have no probs at all using subscription software. If props were to do it they'd need to offer lots of goodies and lots of updates. Adode are always throwing out free stuff for subscribers to keep them interested.

I have an Adobe subscription too - they really do a good job of providing value for the money, they're constantly updating. Having said that, my Photoshop sub is only $10/month so charging $20/month for Reason might be a little steep. A subscription model would net the Props some new users fo sho. I have a buddy who would sign up today. He's dying for the full version of Reason but cant afford the $329 upgrade from Essentials. I personally loathe the subscription model, but from a business perspective it's a good move.

One thing to consider, how would the RE's work? What if you purchased one, then decided to cancel the sub?

Wait, I know. Full Reason for $10/month. Then they could rent the Mixing/Mastering Rigs for $20/month. Or $15/month for Reason + 7 REs of your choice. Don't know how the RE Devs would feel about that, but it seems fair for users.

[Data_Shrine]

I seriously dont see the value of a subscription model for Reason (or any other software). About Adobe CC, i use it at work and even after all the updates they do, its still buggy as hell. I don't find much value in it. At home I stick with Affinity' offerings and other alternative software.

[groggy1]

There is one way I'd like a subscription: if it enabled props to give us something they couldn't normally give us: like vst support.

If they had a premium version of reason that was subscription only and had vst support, I'd pay for that (if reasonable price)

That could maybe offset their losses on Re sales given vst support.

[ravisoni]

Some really good ideas, but I'm especially a fan of the Cakewalk model and the other one where you begin with a subscription price and pay enough eventually to own the license.

On the topic of RE subscriptions, either a nominal fee for a per month use, or buy it fully. The "get 12 months for the price of 10 months" sort of assumes I'll be using the RE for any of those 12 months, and personally that'd be disastrous for me for my many REs I haven't touched in over 2 years. As long as the are options to choose from when they do, if they do, levy a sub model...

[zeebot]

There is one way I'd like a subscription: if it enabled props to give us something they couldn't normally give us: like vst support.

You had to go and do it didn't you

[Arrant]

I hate subscriptions with a vengeance and I can't believe we're discussing it here as a sort of door-opener for Props to implement such a horrible (for users) business model.

[Galaxy]

What's wrong with u ppl. Sub models for software licenses are freakin stupid. No incentive at all for companies to give u any value for ur dollar. Props goes this route and they'll be dumb to do so. How many ppl dropped protools and adobe when they switched to a shitty sub model.

It's bad enough that u don't even own the software u pay for. U own a freaking combination of characters called a licenses.

Software is not a magazine period. Any company who move to sub models are desperate for money and will never give u any value period. U wanna pay forever for less.

Btw, rack extensions are making props money as it stands with a more constant cash flow than b4, so a sub model would be the nail in the coffin.

U ppl ask for trouble each time u bring this up. Trying to plan this out for them.

129 is nothing compared to other upgrade prices. But yet u get very little for it. That would shrink even more with sub models.

So stop instigating and be happy that u got it good atm. And btw, ur sub dollars would go to developing allihoopa figure take and more iOS apps not Reason.

Who here makes enough money from music to merit it as a constant expense? Far fewer than ya'd expect.

Btw, adding VST or AU support would also be stupid. Plugins are buggy as it stands. A closed system is the only reason Reason is stable.

#Stupid #greedy

No offense meant here, just passionate about this subject. Software should never be sub models.

[Galaxy]

I hate subscriptions with a vengeance and I can't believe we're discussing it here as a sort of door-opener for Props to implement such a horrible (for users) business model.

Amen!

Seriously end of year or holidays roll around and some of u ppl get brain damage.

[avasopht]

#Stupid #greedy

No offense meant here, just passionate about this subject. Software should never be sub models.

Did you read any of the types of subscription models I mentioned in the first post?

They all feature the exact same option to purchase a license as you have been doing for the last 15 or so years.

[Galaxy]

Did you read any of the types of subscription models I mentioned in the first post?

They all feature the exact same option to purchase a license as you have been doing for the last 15 or so years.

Yes, still don't care for sub models. Why ask for them? There's no benefit to the end user. More constant buggy updates with shit features. No thanks.

Never makes sense to offer ur self to a company on a platter like this.

Props is a small company and has chosen to stay small. They make more now but haven't grown to scale, and focus on the wrong things. U think a sub model is gonna make this better. Anyone who thinks so isfooling theirselves.

I don't care if I still get to pay the same as b4. Software should not be sub modeled for pricing period.

[avasopht]

Fair enough.

[Creativemind]

As long as the ability to make the traditional upgrade purchase is still in place, I'm open to the idea!

Agreed!