Clipping and Levels question....

[hadmyrackextended]

Hi guys.
I've watched the video on youtube about 'dont sweat it' referring to clipping - and that you shouldn't really worry too much about mixer channels hitting red. I understand the technical aspect of the bits and 'why' audio clips, BUT I have a question regarding which meters we should be paying attention to, before exporting a track back to the 16 bit world.

When I am making a track despite all the mixer channels being nowhere NEAR red, with a little compression on a kick and snare for example, I sometimes see the clip light pop up in the bar at the bottom next to the DSP. This obviously bothers me and i'm wondering whether i should be paying attention to it or not ? It tends to occur after the drums are laid down, hits are compressed and a few synths and basses have been added; not a problem, pull back the master fader at the end....right?

For what it's worth, i should let you know, I do NOT avoid mixer faders going into red, in fear of clipping, I keep them in the green initially, because I feel it gives me room to compress and then up the output gain. Obviously my sound is a lot punchier after compression, so if I compress an already high initial signal i would get red light flickering.

Now... another slant on it...
I am currently in the process of making a garage track, it sounds clean as a bell, no audible distortion OR visual reds (even in the master out although its close to the top) HOWEVER the 'Big Meter' is very low.

How do you guys watch for clipping, do you focus mainly on the bottom toolbar and wait for the red light before pulling the master fader down a bit, or am i supposed to ignore this red light and pay attention to the 'BIG METER' and not concern myself with red lights anywhere else ?

[Emian]

hey, i'm far from a mastering/mixing specialist... i had a period i freaked out as soon as i saw 'red' lights...

Now i just add stuff, arrange until i have a solid "track" idea. then i start mixing (allways start with low-pass filters on the SSL on most channels except maybe kick/bass; again i'm far from an expert & frankly i don't master EQ'ing at all). Before entering mastering mode i try to have 4-8 dB of headroom.

[hadmyrackextended]

Trouble is with me mate, I actually mix as i go along. Habit of..... well, since i started.

I will add a set of drums for example, and add compression and EQ before I even lay a synth. I like a good solid base to work from and If i know the drums are at the level I want, i gives me a good gauge for all the instuments that go in after.

I think i would freak out making a track entirely without adding anything to it, in fact i'd probably lose inspiration as it would (to me) not sound the way i think it should as i go along.

[Emian]

Trouble is with me mate, I actually mix as i go along. Habit of..... well, since i started.

I will add a set of drums for example, and add compression and EQ before I even lay a synth. I like a good solid base to work from and If i know the drums are at the level I want, i gives me a good gauge for all the instuments that go in after.

I think i would freak out making a track entirely without adding anything to it, in fact i'd probably lose inspiration as it would (to me) not sound the way i think it should as i go along.

hey i used to do the same ... but in the end you'll have to change stuff around to mix the rest together; so why not just try ??? there should be a define line between the creative proces & the mixing proces i believe

[hadmyrackextended]

Unfortunately i've got myself into a process that i dont think id be able to get away from. It's not messing with my creativity in all fairness and its actually a preferred method of working. I don't go wild, I just mean that I will add compression and the odd EQ to blend as much as possible on the fly. Of course I always do a final mix and alteration at the end.


I have tried in the past btw to make the track completely dry but i always end up titivating as i go..

[Gorgon]

Don't worry, as soon as Selig sees this thread, he will explain everything. He's the only one that can really.

[submonsterz]

if the clip indicator shows at bottom near dsp as you say and marked in red in attached picture you are indeed clipping the hardware io output.
that is the final out indicator to the hardware so that must not hit the clip indicator .
also to keep eye on this it is indicated in where I have yellow on pic circled. Hitting the red in channel faders no worries its the extra red at the end showing clipping you need to not have happen .

clipping.jpg (254.99 KiB) Viewed 1708 times

[boobytrap]

[Gorgon]

bla bla bla

Maybe you could actually READ THE ORIGINAL POST first.

I've watched the video on youtube about 'dont sweat it' referring to clipping

[dioxide]

There was a recent discussion of this here:
http://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7496092

Basically if what you have sounds good but is too quiet, that's better than it being too loud and constantly battling levels with compressors and maximisers etc. You can easily increase the volume of the track and add a single maximiser to pull it all together. If you are going to have the track mastered they will prefer lower levels also.

It is also good to allow headroom if you like to boost using the EQs. Reason's EQ has a huge amount of gain so it can easily push you into clipping if you add bass to a kick drum, unless you start out with low levels.

[boobytrap]

bla bla bla

Maybe you could actually READ THE ORIGINAL POST first.

I've watched the video on youtube about 'dont sweat it' referring to clipping

Here's a chance to watch it again.

[hadmyrackextended]

There was a recent discussion of this here:
http://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7496092

Basically if what you have sounds good but is too quiet, that's better than it being too loud and constantly battling levels with compressors and maximisers etc. You can easily increase the volume of the track and add a single maximiser to pull it all together. If you are going to have the track mastered they will prefer lower levels also.

It is also good to allow headroom if you like to boost using the EQs. Reason's EQ has a huge amount of gain so it can easily push you into clipping if you add bass to a kick drum, unless you start out with low levels.

Cheers. From what you've all said it seems I am right in what I am doing which is pull the master fader back a bit if i see red led at the bottom.
I just for a second thought - what if this LED doesn't actually matter? and thought id ask the question.

Most of my stuff is only produced and mixed in reason and kept (obviously) below the red clipping indicator, before being sent for mastering, so I guess i'm doing it right, i just thought i'd check.

[hadmyrackextended]

if the clip indicator shows at bottom near dsp as you say and marked in red in attached picture you are indeed clipping the hardware io output.
that is the final out indicator to the hardware so that must not hit the clip indicator .
also to keep eye on this it is indicated in where I have yellow on pic circled. Hitting the red in channel faders no worries its the extra red at the end showing clipping you need to not have happen .

clipping.jpg

See my current track is nearly at the top for the master (if i increased master gain it would clip) yet, in the big meter it's only lighting up about an inch and a half worth of green. Maybe i need to look at it again to make sure i've seen right.

I suspect I had it on VU maybe ?