90 fantastic patches were deleted in Reason 9!

[Marco Raaphorst]

I just found out that not only did Propellerhead delete the Line 6 devices from Reason 9, they also deleted 2 folders of lovely effect patches. Most of these patches, Combinators patches, make use of a Line 6 device, but not all of them are depending on it. What a strange decision to delete these 90 patches which are great for guitar players!!!

More: http://melodiefabriek.com/blog/fantasti ... s-deleted/

[chimp_spanner]

I gotta say, while I understand there were probably licensing reasons as to why they had to go, I'm still kinda bummed out. I really don't get on with the Softube stuff at all. Kuassa is cool but it's a bit too fiddly. I liked how immediate the Line 6 devices were. Pick an amp -> go. Lots of choice. Low CPU. Simple interface. Oh well! I'm using Amplitube on iOS now and it's pretty much the best sounding thing ever, and I get less latency than on my laptop so go figure!!

[Marco Raaphorst]

I gotta say, while I understand there were probably licensing reasons as to why they had to go, I'm still kinda bummed out. I really don't get on with the Softube stuff at all. Kuassa is cool but it's a bit too fiddly. I liked how immediate the Line 6 devices were. Pick an amp -> go. Lots of choice. Low CPU. Simple interface. Oh well! I'm using Amplitube on iOS now and it's pretty much the best sounding thing ever, and I get less latency than on my laptop so go figure!!

I like the Blackface amp modeling of Line 6. Have reversed engineered it in an IR which is great. Never loved the other amp and sim models of the Line 6 for guitar.

[jfrichards]

From what I can tell, the closest guitar amp in Reason to the Line6 is the Revival. And don't dare try it with Fritz, your brain will melt. I do miss numerous Line6 patches, but I've kept Reason 8 around and I save those patches with Revival, Kuassa, or Softube amps so I can use them in R9.

[kuhliloach]

Line 6 very much deserves removal from Reason IMHO. We don't want the stench of dishonesty stinking up our DAW.

I'm a Toneport UX2 (with add-ons) owner and I recently retired the device entirely based on wanting better pre-amps. The "nail in the coffin" for me is Line 6's new HD models requiring a hardware purchase to access. Our CPU's are more than capable of running these models yet Line 6 will not support it, even for a faithful Toneport UX2 owner. This sounds just like the Line 6 I began to despise on day 1 of owning the Toneport when I realized they had crippled the device out-of-the-box.

Like other posters here I am not a big fan of the Softube amps in Reason, but I love Kuassa. I feel the way Propellerheads handled the Line 6 situation in Reason 9's release stinks just about as bad as Line 6 themselves.

[Marco Raaphorst]

I like Twang and Crunch of Softube. Rock is way too much compressed and Lead is simply way over the top for me. Bass is wat too heavy in Softube modeling. Cabs are ok.

[ljekio]

Fortunately Reason 8 and 9 can be installed both and have different preference files in there.

[Captain Boyfriend]

The "Gorilla Bass" combi was great fun. I should have copied what its Thor was doing before I upgraded. I think it was just a single analog VCO but still. Had a fat sound. I don't miss the Line 6 stuff otherwise.

[joeyluck]

From what I can tell, the closest guitar amp in Reason to the Line6 is the Revival.

Maybe Audreio (who recently purchased Sononics) could be convinced to release the amps/effects as a separate Rack Extension. And then maybe they could build up on that to offer something more. Would certainly sit nicer in the rack when you only want to use Revivals effects.

[Gorgon]

I just found out that not only did Propellerhead delete the Line 6 devices from Reason 9, they also deleted 2 folders of lovely effect patches. Most of these patches, Combinators patches, make use of a Line 6 device, but not all of them are depending on it. What a strange decision to delete these 90 patches which are great for guitar players!!!

More: http://melodiefabriek.com/blog/fantasti ... s-deleted/

Good. Another reason (hah!) to stay on 7.

[joeyluck]

You can still access previous Factory Sound Banks from newer versions of Reason, correct? I think their removal from the new banks is just so new users aren't browsing 90 Combinator patches that contain bypassed Softube amps. It makes sense if you know what you are looking for...

[EDIT] And I just realized you are talking about effect patches. I could understand instrument patches... But having 90 effect patches with bypassed Softube amps doesn't seem like it would make much sense.

Perhaps they are being reworked? Or maybe some skilled folks with good ears like yourselves might like to take on a project of reworking those effect patches with what you feel is the best suited Softube settings? Could be fun. But I think you should still be able to access them even in newer versions of Reason, correct?

[QVprod]

Sad thing. The Softube stuff is horrible in comparison to Line 6. Granted I'm only doing keyboard guitar, but it's all being done with Guitar Rig and Ampire in Studio One going forward. Reason amp options just don't cut it anymore.

[jfrichards]

...Reason amp options just don't cut it anymore.

Maybe for you non-guitarists. For those of us who play guitar, the guitar options in Reason are significantly better than ever before. When the patches that flew away with Line6-Steinberg-Yamaha get restored by us or by Props, that will restore balance to the force. For example, Tea in Sahara is missing but replaced by Beer in Sahara using Softube.

[moneykube]

so like mulicore processing promised back in reason 3(advertised for years on their site... we be working on it... lol)... which never happened due to blaming apple....and coding and Motorola and whatever else they could and can blame...... I actually bought reason 3 because of this mistruth....
and how about the statement all previous version patches would work in all future releases....hmmmm.... another lie
and now the blame game spat between line 6 and it's removal and replacement minus useful patches that were not recreated with the new amps,
.... um.... how many untruths / false statements/lies can we look forward to? I have been attacked many times for these statements and even threatened I would be sued.... very nice approach to a user who has spent 1000's of dollars supporting this platform
I love reason(hate the ethics)... hate misinformation that tempts users to upgrade and then excuses , excuses, excuses.... if you make a statement... and gain users because of said promises... and then you are told... oh nevermind... situation was out of our control.... welcome to the software lie game based on sales...not honesty or scruples.... been with reason since 2.5.... no loyalty to long time users.... lets make money on the kids who are new to the deceit.... corporate dishonesty rules in this company and many others.... sue me... I laugh at the attempt... I laugh at the misguided effort... can't sell my racks to reimburse your greedy attempt to sue me... no money... you already have it...

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[moneykube]

prove me wrong

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[moneykube]

ok.. I have my answer... thank-you

[8cros]

prove me wrong

And I know why.

Do you want an honest company, precise scientific tool, all the elements of music production or education?
But this is impossible.
To do this just need communism, government funding, and spread the word free.
You want that it is impossible in principle.

Reason will always be deprived of all that you need because Reason is not for you.


And we (users) do not have consensus.

[Marco Raaphorst]

You can still access previous Factory Sound Banks from newer versions of Reason, correct? I think their removal from the new banks is just so new users aren't browsing 90 Combinator patches that contain bypassed Softube amps. It makes sense if you know what you are looking for...

[EDIT] And I just realized you are talking about effect patches. I could understand instrument patches... But having 90 effect patches with bypassed Softube amps doesn't seem like it would make much sense.

Perhaps they are being reworked? Or maybe some skilled folks with good ears like yourselves might like to take on a project of reworking those effect patches with what you feel is the best suited Softube settings? Could be fun. But I think you should still be able to access them even in newer versions of Reason, correct?

No you can't access them because Reason will give you a warning 'A ReFill named Reason Factory Sound Bank has already been found at'.

You need to use an older version, like R8. And yes as I mention in my blogpost you can rebuild these patches VERY easily using Softube Amp.

[Marco Raaphorst]

It would be nice to redo these patches but legally we're not allowed to do so.

[moneykube]

prove me wrong

And I know why.

Do you want an honest company, precise scientific tool, all the elements of music production or education?
But this is impossible.
To do this just need communism, government funding, and spread the word free.
You want that it is impossible in principle.

Reason will always be deprived of all that you need because Reason is not for you.


And we (users) do not have consensus.

well... love reason but not some of the misinformation...through many years of using it... reason is indeed for me... just think some of the tactics seem odd or misleading... that is my point... still sticking with 7 ... would love to go to 9 but... hate jumping through hoops that the props kind of indicated would not be and issue.... ever... main gripe... but love love the platform... just feel if someone says something... they should stick to it even if issues arise... to me that screams lie... but that appears to be just me....not much I can do

[orthodox]

To do this just need communism, government funding, and spread the word free.

"Walter, what the fuck has anything got to do with Vietnam?"

[moneykube]

It would be nice to redo these patches but legally we're not allowed to do so.

my point exactly... they state many promises through the years... yet it is up to users to do the work which as u say we are not allowed to do.... should be up to the developers to make their statements a reality... not the users who believed said promises imo.... but hey... what do I know... it's all about $$$$... bottom line... reason is wonderful... just question false statements that mislead people for the almighty dollar....sales for those that never say false statements is fair game... why... where is the oversight...I could say hey... I can make the nnxt jump hurdles and have sex with aliens , creating hybrid cv wondergods... would that be cool... or would it be a misleading lie resulting in an an alien invasion ?

[boobytrap]

Wackawonk Lead... is the best

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[Marco Raaphorst]

Wackawonk Lead... is the best

WW.png

Makes me realise there are many more sounds deleted from Reason! Can not imagine why the Props have not simply swapped the Line 6 devices with Amp devices. Yes, a bit of work, maybe additional EQ and additional Impulse Responses... but deleting patches...! I now understand why they "added" these new sounds to Reason and change the naming of the soundbanks. Which I though is wrong also. Calling something a Reason 9 Sounds folder while including all sounds is simply absurd.

[Yonatan]

Best would have been to make replacement amps that easier can be placed in the patches where Line 6 were used. But the Line 6 and the Softube amps are like opposite types. They are so different so that it is very hard to just replace with a few tweaks. And no inbuilt auto-wahwah etc. And when it comes to honesty, I think that the marketing of the Softube amps as "new" devices in the R8 version, was very misleading, as we already have paid for the Line 6 ones. Leaving R8 an even less compelling upgrade. They should at least have set the upgrade price to half for R7 users. But it seems PH have invested more in marketing and sale strategies than in actual development. For me, real constant improvement and a bit faster development, will almost sell itself in an DAW like Reason, as the community users would spread the word like rapid fire. Attraction should come from real life, not from some gimmicks.
Put more love into compelling continueing updates that means a change, and less on smart but empty marketing. What is smart in a short span, might often not be the wisest in the longer run. That is my point. Just want things can get on a better track.
Reason 9 is a good restart, but not enough for another 2 years. Just move on and progress. Don´t settle for less. Dont want to see this DAW suddenly discontinued and replaced by an ipad- app.

And to get back to the missing patches. Why not hire Marco for exchanging the Line6 to Softube? You have showed your knowledge already with guitar refills.