Microsoft Surface Studio (Wow!).

[eiresurfer]

Disclaimer: I'm neither an MS nor an Apple fanboy. I use MS for my day job and Apple at home. I have Reason on a MacBook Pro.

But...this new device from Microsoft looks amazing.

I would LOVE to try it out with Reason.

[eiresurfer]

* The bad news is that it's about 3000 dollars/2750 euros. Ouch.

[16BitBear]

* The bad news is that it's about 3000 dollars/2750 euros. Ouch.

For a design professional, this is quite reasonable. Cintiq's alone are thousands of dollars and this is a computer/Cintiq combination.

My partner is a graphic designer and professional artists. She will be getting one when they are released. It is a business write-off.

[Gulale]

It looks like a mac mini with monitor. I can't wait to listen the review about how it heats up.

[selig]

* The bad news is that it's about 3000 dollars/2750 euros. Ouch.

For a design professional, this is quite reasonable. Cintiq's alone are thousands of dollars and this is a computer/Cintiq combination.

My partner is a graphic designer and professional artists. She will be getting one when they are released. It is a business write-off.

Are you sure she won't want to have some hands-on time with this before committing to a purchase?
Even though it's a business write-off, it still needs to meet her needs if it's to be a USEFUL tool IMO.
Or maybe she's already seen one in action at a trade show?

BTW, my designer partner and friends are definitely interested in this!
Wonder why the big metal dial instead of a gesture to accomplish the same thing? (maybe I don't totally understand it's function…)

[Exowildebeest]

Be aware that it does not come with an SSD - not even optional - but with a 1 or 2 tb "hybrid" drive. Bummer imo.

[4filegate]

It looks like a mac mini with monitor. I can't wait to listen the review about how it heats up.

the good news is, time flies - the bad news is, Pre-order 6th Gen Intel Core i7 /Ships early 2017, say!

[16BitBear]

* The bad news is that it's about 3000 dollars/2750 euros. Ouch.

For a design professional, this is quite reasonable. Cintiq's alone are thousands of dollars and this is a computer/Cintiq combination.

My partner is a graphic designer and professional artists. She will be getting one when they are released. It is a business write-off.

Are you sure she won't want to have some hands-on time with this before committing to a purchase?
Even though it's a business write-off, it still needs to meet her needs if it's to be a USEFUL tool IMO.
Or maybe she's already seen one in action at a trade show?

BTW, my designer partner and friends are definitely interested in this!
Wonder why the big metal dial instead of a gesture to accomplish the same thing? (maybe I don't totally understand it's function…)

Yes, she has seen it in action and is sold on it usefulness for her. She was already ready to invest in a Cintiq and an upgrade to her current system. Surface Studio allows her to basically get both together in a single unit at a great price. Her main applications are Painter, Maya, and Blender. Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. are secondary ones for her.

From what she shared with me, the Surface dial (I believe it is called) allows with one hand to adjust specific parameters at the same time that the other hand is not disturbed from continuing its work. So for example, she sets the dial to control paint brush size. She can then be in Painter sketching and place the dial anywhere on the screen and adjust the size on the fly so she can vary the strokes. Another use might be perspective in a 3D city model for instance. She can dial in and out of the model with out interrupting her workflow as gesture often do. The ergonomics seem to be very good as well.

[selig]

* The bad news is that it's about 3000 dollars/2750 euros. Ouch.

For a design professional, this is quite reasonable. Cintiq's alone are thousands of dollars and this is a computer/Cintiq combination.

My partner is a graphic designer and professional artists. She will be getting one when they are released. It is a business write-off.

Are you sure she won't want to have some hands-on time with this before committing to a purchase?
Even though it's a business write-off, it still needs to meet her needs if it's to be a USEFUL tool IMO.
Or maybe she's already seen one in action at a trade show?

BTW, my designer partner and friends are definitely interested in this!
Wonder why the big metal dial instead of a gesture to accomplish the same thing? (maybe I don't totally understand it's function…)

Yes, she has seen it in action and is sold on it usefulness for her. She was already ready to invest in a Cintiq and an upgrade to her current system. Surface Studio allows her to basically get both together in a single unit at a great price. Her main applications are Painter, Maya, and Blender. Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. are secondary ones for her.

From what she shared with me, the Surface dial (I believe it is called) allows with one hand to adjust specific parameters at the same time that the other hand is not disturbed from continuing its work. So for example, she sets the dial to control paint brush size. She can then be in Painter sketching and place the dial anywhere on the screen and adjust the size on the fly so she can vary the strokes. Another use might be perspective in a 3D city model for instance. She can dial in and out of the model with out interrupting her workflow as gesture often do. The ergonomics seem to be very good as well.

I can understand a pen/pencil, since many artists know how to use it. But gestures could easily replace this dial, as you describe it. You can have 2-3 fingers control the same thing as the dial, I would think. There's no advantage to a dial as there is to a pen (as I described above), so it's another expense and something else to break/loose and rely on. There's also probably only one source for the dial, but you can get alternate pen controllers for any system.

Anyway, I'd hope she can return it if it's not working for her needs - 1st gen hardware/software can be a batch, and seeing a demo would never convince me to make a big investment. Imaging getting the Slate Raven after seeing a demo only?


It's got to not only work, but work FOR YOU. And I CAN write this stuff off, and still don't feel it's "for me".

[16BitBear]

* The bad news is that it's about 3000 dollars/2750 euros. Ouch.

For a design professional, this is quite reasonable. Cintiq's alone are thousands of dollars and this is a computer/Cintiq combination.

My partner is a graphic designer and professional artists. She will be getting one when they are released. It is a business write-off.

Are you sure she won't want to have some hands-on time with this before committing to a purchase?
Even though it's a business write-off, it still needs to meet her needs if it's to be a USEFUL tool IMO.
Or maybe she's already seen one in action at a trade show?

BTW, my designer partner and friends are definitely interested in this!
Wonder why the big metal dial instead of a gesture to accomplish the same thing? (maybe I don't totally understand it's function…)

Yes, she has seen it in action and is sold on it usefulness for her. She was already ready to invest in a Cintiq and an upgrade to her current system. Surface Studio allows her to basically get both together in a single unit at a great price. Her main applications are Painter, Maya, and Blender. Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. are secondary ones for her.

From what she shared with me, the Surface dial (I believe it is called) allows with one hand to adjust specific parameters at the same time that the other hand is not disturbed from continuing its work. So for example, she sets the dial to control paint brush size. She can then be in Painter sketching and place the dial anywhere on the screen and adjust the size on the fly so she can vary the strokes. Another use might be perspective in a 3D city model for instance. She can dial in and out of the model with out interrupting her workflow as gesture often do. The ergonomics seem to be very good as well.

I can understand a pen/pencil, since many artists know how to use it. But gestures could easily replace this dial, as you describe it. You can have 2-3 fingers control the same thing as the dial, I would think. There's no advantage to a dial as there is to a pen (as I described above), so it's another expense and something else to break/loose and rely on. There's also probably only one source for the dial, but you can get alternate pen controllers for any system.

Anyway, I'd hope she can return it if it's not working for her needs - 1st gen hardware/software can be a batch, and seeing a demo would never convince me to make a big investment. Imaging getting the Slate Raven after seeing a demo only?


It's got to not only work, but work FOR YOU. And I CAN write this stuff off, and still don't feel it's "for me".

The dial is just another tool. Some like swiping which does require shifting your gaze from one place on the screen to another whereas the dial does not.

I really wouldn't call this 1st gen hardware. The guts are the same as the entire Surface line as it has evolved and corrected itself. She already uses a Surface Pro 2 and was considering an upgrade to the Surface Book before demo'ing the Studio. I trust her judgement on this as she's been in computer aided design since the Mac IIfx era.

[selig]

* The bad news is that it's about 3000 dollars/2750 euros. Ouch.

For a design professional, this is quite reasonable. Cintiq's alone are thousands of dollars and this is a computer/Cintiq combination.

My partner is a graphic designer and professional artists. She will be getting one when they are released. It is a business write-off.

Are you sure she won't want to have some hands-on time with this before committing to a purchase?
Even though it's a business write-off, it still needs to meet her needs if it's to be a USEFUL tool IMO.
Or maybe she's already seen one in action at a trade show?

BTW, my designer partner and friends are definitely interested in this!
Wonder why the big metal dial instead of a gesture to accomplish the same thing? (maybe I don't totally understand it's function…)

Yes, she has seen it in action and is sold on it usefulness for her. She was already ready to invest in a Cintiq and an upgrade to her current system. Surface Studio allows her to basically get both together in a single unit at a great price. Her main applications are Painter, Maya, and Blender. Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. are secondary ones for her.

From what she shared with me, the Surface dial (I believe it is called) allows with one hand to adjust specific parameters at the same time that the other hand is not disturbed from continuing its work. So for example, she sets the dial to control paint brush size. She can then be in Painter sketching and place the dial anywhere on the screen and adjust the size on the fly so she can vary the strokes. Another use might be perspective in a 3D city model for instance. She can dial in and out of the model with out interrupting her workflow as gesture often do. The ergonomics seem to be very good as well.

I can understand a pen/pencil, since many artists know how to use it. But gestures could easily replace this dial, as you describe it. You can have 2-3 fingers control the same thing as the dial, I would think. There's no advantage to a dial as there is to a pen (as I described above), so it's another expense and something else to break/loose and rely on. There's also probably only one source for the dial, but you can get alternate pen controllers for any system.

Anyway, I'd hope she can return it if it's not working for her needs - 1st gen hardware/software can be a batch, and seeing a demo would never convince me to make a big investment. Imaging getting the Slate Raven after seeing a demo only?


It's got to not only work, but work FOR YOU. And I CAN write this stuff off, and still don't feel it's "for me".

The dial is just another tool. Some like swiping which does require shifting your gaze from one place on the screen to another whereas the dial does not.

I really wouldn't call this 1st gen hardware. The guts are the same as the entire Surface line as it has evolved and corrected itself. She already uses a Surface Pro 2 and was considering an upgrade to the Surface Book before demo'ing the Studio. I trust her judgement on this as she's been in computer aided design since the Mac IIfx era.

My comments have nothing to do with how long you've been professionally employed - I've been an audio engineer for over 30 years (same as my GF designer) starting with a Mac 512(!) and wouldn't make an important purchase without some personal hands-on time. It's just a matter of how much risk you're able to absorb if it doesn't work out, and everyone is different there.

Also don't follow Surface products, but was under the impression the "desktop" version was totally new, as was the dial? That's a big hardware upgrade, especially for the "moving parts" aspect.

I DO get your point about not changing visual focus, and see the value of the "dial" for that reason alone! And I DO see the appeal of this approach as long as you are able to "do Windows", which not every designer is keen on. I also think it's important for the Apple world to have STRONG competition - everyone wins when there are choices and competition IMO.

[16BitBear]

* The bad news is that it's about 3000 dollars/2750 euros. Ouch.

For a design professional, this is quite reasonable. Cintiq's alone are thousands of dollars and this is a computer/Cintiq combination.

My partner is a graphic designer and professional artists. She will be getting one when they are released. It is a business write-off.

Are you sure she won't want to have some hands-on time with this before committing to a purchase?
Even though it's a business write-off, it still needs to meet her needs if it's to be a USEFUL tool IMO.
Or maybe she's already seen one in action at a trade show?

BTW, my designer partner and friends are definitely interested in this!
Wonder why the big metal dial instead of a gesture to accomplish the same thing? (maybe I don't totally understand it's function…)

Yes, she has seen it in action and is sold on it usefulness for her. She was already ready to invest in a Cintiq and an upgrade to her current system. Surface Studio allows her to basically get both together in a single unit at a great price. Her main applications are Painter, Maya, and Blender. Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. are secondary ones for her.

From what she shared with me, the Surface dial (I believe it is called) allows with one hand to adjust specific parameters at the same time that the other hand is not disturbed from continuing its work. So for example, she sets the dial to control paint brush size. She can then be in Painter sketching and place the dial anywhere on the screen and adjust the size on the fly so she can vary the strokes. Another use might be perspective in a 3D city model for instance. She can dial in and out of the model with out interrupting her workflow as gesture often do. The ergonomics seem to be very good as well.

I can understand a pen/pencil, since many artists know how to use it. But gestures could easily replace this dial, as you describe it. You can have 2-3 fingers control the same thing as the dial, I would think. There's no advantage to a dial as there is to a pen (as I described above), so it's another expense and something else to break/loose and rely on. There's also probably only one source for the dial, but you can get alternate pen controllers for any system.

Anyway, I'd hope she can return it if it's not working for her needs - 1st gen hardware/software can be a batch, and seeing a demo would never convince me to make a big investment. Imaging getting the Slate Raven after seeing a demo only?


It's got to not only work, but work FOR YOU. And I CAN write this stuff off, and still don't feel it's "for me".

The dial is just another tool. Some like swiping which does require shifting your gaze from one place on the screen to another whereas the dial does not.

I really wouldn't call this 1st gen hardware. The guts are the same as the entire Surface line as it has evolved and corrected itself. She already uses a Surface Pro 2 and was considering an upgrade to the Surface Book before demo'ing the Studio. I trust her judgement on this as she's been in computer aided design since the Mac IIfx era.

My comments have nothing to do with how long you've been professionally employed - I've been an audio engineer for over 30 years (same as my GF designer) starting with a Mac 512(!) and wouldn't make an important purchase without some personal hands-on time. It's just a matter of how much risk you're able to absorb if it doesn't work out, and everyone is different there.

Also don't follow Surface products, but was under the impression the "desktop" version was totally new, as was the dial? That's a big hardware upgrade, especially for the "moving parts" aspect.

I DO get your point about not changing visual focus, and see the value of the "dial" for that reason alone! And I DO see the appeal of this approach as long as you are able to "do Windows", which not every designer is keen on. I also think it's important for the Apple world to have STRONG competition - everyone wins when there are choices and competition IMO.

I am sorry. My point was just that she has demo'ed it. The Surface Studio meets her current needs. It may not for others. She shifted from Apple when Jobs became more concerned with iProducts than Mac Pro's. This has sadly accelerated under Cook. Windows 10 has been quite smooth for both of us. We have it configured for maximum privacy, and it has been very stable. I have only one machine that has been 'iffy' and it was a six year old 1st gen i7 that had been running 7 all that time. The upgrade was not very smooth and there were hidden driver issues and application conflicts that took a bit of effort but not much to get ironed out. Now there are no problems at all.

Yes, the 'desktop' is new but the guts are much like a Mac Mini. They are based on other designs from the Book and the Surface tablets. It is also just a fairly standard PC - embedded 4GB Nvidia graphics, GB's of memory, and i7 CPU. The display is what is important and it seems to rival the Cintiq. Microsoft has a winner here and definitely is competing for the pro space against Apple who seems to have abandoned it, for now.

I am rather agnostic when it comes to OS's. I have used everything from Pro Dos on IIe to Solaris to Openstep to Linux, Windows, and classic Mac OS and OS X. I code on Linux and Mac. I do audio on Linux, Mac, and Windows. And I do photography work exclusively on Windows.

[selig]

* The bad news is that it's about 3000 dollars/2750 euros. Ouch.

For a design professional, this is quite reasonable. Cintiq's alone are thousands of dollars and this is a computer/Cintiq combination.

My partner is a graphic designer and professional artists. She will be getting one when they are released. It is a business write-off.

Are you sure she won't want to have some hands-on time with this before committing to a purchase?
Even though it's a business write-off, it still needs to meet her needs if it's to be a USEFUL tool IMO.
Or maybe she's already seen one in action at a trade show?

BTW, my designer partner and friends are definitely interested in this!
Wonder why the big metal dial instead of a gesture to accomplish the same thing? (maybe I don't totally understand it's function…)

Yes, she has seen it in action and is sold on it usefulness for her. She was already ready to invest in a Cintiq and an upgrade to her current system. Surface Studio allows her to basically get both together in a single unit at a great price. Her main applications are Painter, Maya, and Blender. Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. are secondary ones for her.

From what she shared with me, the Surface dial (I believe it is called) allows with one hand to adjust specific parameters at the same time that the other hand is not disturbed from continuing its work. So for example, she sets the dial to control paint brush size. She can then be in Painter sketching and place the dial anywhere on the screen and adjust the size on the fly so she can vary the strokes. Another use might be perspective in a 3D city model for instance. She can dial in and out of the model with out interrupting her workflow as gesture often do. The ergonomics seem to be very good as well.

I can understand a pen/pencil, since many artists know how to use it. But gestures could easily replace this dial, as you describe it. You can have 2-3 fingers control the same thing as the dial, I would think. There's no advantage to a dial as there is to a pen (as I described above), so it's another expense and something else to break/loose and rely on. There's also probably only one source for the dial, but you can get alternate pen controllers for any system.

Anyway, I'd hope she can return it if it's not working for her needs - 1st gen hardware/software can be a batch, and seeing a demo would never convince me to make a big investment. Imaging getting the Slate Raven after seeing a demo only?


It's got to not only work, but work FOR YOU. And I CAN write this stuff off, and still don't feel it's "for me".

The dial is just another tool. Some like swiping which does require shifting your gaze from one place on the screen to another whereas the dial does not.

I really wouldn't call this 1st gen hardware. The guts are the same as the entire Surface line as it has evolved and corrected itself. She already uses a Surface Pro 2 and was considering an upgrade to the Surface Book before demo'ing the Studio. I trust her judgement on this as she's been in computer aided design since the Mac IIfx era.

My comments have nothing to do with how long you've been professionally employed - I've been an audio engineer for over 30 years (same as my GF designer) starting with a Mac 512(!) and wouldn't make an important purchase without some personal hands-on time. It's just a matter of how much risk you're able to absorb if it doesn't work out, and everyone is different there.

Also don't follow Surface products, but was under the impression the "desktop" version was totally new, as was the dial? That's a big hardware upgrade, especially for the "moving parts" aspect.

I DO get your point about not changing visual focus, and see the value of the "dial" for that reason alone! And I DO see the appeal of this approach as long as you are able to "do Windows", which not every designer is keen on. I also think it's important for the Apple world to have STRONG competition - everyone wins when there are choices and competition IMO.

I am sorry. My point was just that she has demo'ed it. The Surface Studio meets her current needs. It may not for others. She shifted from Apple when Jobs became more concerned with iProducts than Mac Pro's. This has sadly accelerated under Cook. Windows 10 has been quite smooth for both of us. We have it configured for maximum privacy, and it has been very stable. I have only one machine that has been 'iffy' and it was a six year old 1st gen i7 that had been running 7 all that time. The upgrade was not very smooth and there were hidden driver issues and application conflicts that took a bit of effort but not much to get ironed out. Now there are no problems at all.

Yes, the 'desktop' is new but the guts are much like a Mac Mini. They are based on other designs from the Book and the Surface tablets. It is also just a fairly standard PC - embedded 4GB Nvidia graphics, GB's of memory, and i7 CPU. The display is what is important and it seems to rival the Cintiq. Microsoft has a winner here and definitely is competing for the pro space against Apple who seems to have abandoned it, for now.

I am rather agnostic when it comes to OS's. I have used everything from Pro Dos on IIe to Solaris to Openstep to Linux, Windows, and classic Mac OS and OS X. I code on Linux and Mac. I do audio on Linux, Mac, and Windows. And I do photography work exclusively on Windows.

My "creative" side doesn't like learning multiple environments, as it slows me down. The few times I have to work on a windows machine things grind to a crawl for me! Same for mix automation - after so much time on the SSL I couldn't work on other systems. Also why I stick to Reason. Back when MIDI sequencers were all the rage (80s-90s) my initial plan was to get them all and used each for what it was best at. Turns out, it made more sense (for me) to focus on one and get work done. It's the same approach Eno suggests for synths, and why guitarists often stick to one model.

I do appreciate folks smarter than me can move more elegantly across multiple platforms, but I'm probably too old to learn new platforms - I already spend too much time learning new tools (for software development and UI design) and can't afford another variable!

But that's just me (and age/habit). Also, at my age I'm more focused on trying to leave a body of work rather than expand my tool set!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[synthetechsound]

Wow indeed.

I have all macs at my place except for a Windows test machine which I'm gonna upgrade to a Surface Studio.

Still love my iMac though

[cr1st0]

Looks good.

[HepCat]

To ppl that already need this, l'm sure it's great. Just don't lean on it with your elbow!

[16BitBear]

* The bad news is that it's about 3000 dollars/2750 euros. Ouch.

For a design professional, this is quite reasonable. Cintiq's alone are thousands of dollars and this is a computer/Cintiq combination.

My partner is a graphic designer and professional artists. She will be getting one when they are released. It is a business write-off.

Are you sure she won't want to have some hands-on time with this before committing to a purchase?
Even though it's a business write-off, it still needs to meet her needs if it's to be a USEFUL tool IMO.
Or maybe she's already seen one in action at a trade show?

BTW, my designer partner and friends are definitely interested in this!
Wonder why the big metal dial instead of a gesture to accomplish the same thing? (maybe I don't totally understand it's function…)

Yes, she has seen it in action and is sold on it usefulness for her. She was already ready to invest in a Cintiq and an upgrade to her current system. Surface Studio allows her to basically get both together in a single unit at a great price. Her main applications are Painter, Maya, and Blender. Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. are secondary ones for her.

From what she shared with me, the Surface dial (I believe it is called) allows with one hand to adjust specific parameters at the same time that the other hand is not disturbed from continuing its work. So for example, she sets the dial to control paint brush size. She can then be in Painter sketching and place the dial anywhere on the screen and adjust the size on the fly so she can vary the strokes. Another use might be perspective in a 3D city model for instance. She can dial in and out of the model with out interrupting her workflow as gesture often do. The ergonomics seem to be very good as well.

I can understand a pen/pencil, since many artists know how to use it. But gestures could easily replace this dial, as you describe it. You can have 2-3 fingers control the same thing as the dial, I would think. There's no advantage to a dial as there is to a pen (as I described above), so it's another expense and something else to break/loose and rely on. There's also probably only one source for the dial, but you can get alternate pen controllers for any system.

Anyway, I'd hope she can return it if it's not working for her needs - 1st gen hardware/software can be a batch, and seeing a demo would never convince me to make a big investment. Imaging getting the Slate Raven after seeing a demo only?


It's got to not only work, but work FOR YOU. And I CAN write this stuff off, and still don't feel it's "for me".

The dial is just another tool. Some like swiping which does require shifting your gaze from one place on the screen to another whereas the dial does not.

I really wouldn't call this 1st gen hardware. The guts are the same as the entire Surface line as it has evolved and corrected itself. She already uses a Surface Pro 2 and was considering an upgrade to the Surface Book before demo'ing the Studio. I trust her judgement on this as she's been in computer aided design since the Mac IIfx era.

My comments have nothing to do with how long you've been professionally employed - I've been an audio engineer for over 30 years (same as my GF designer) starting with a Mac 512(!) and wouldn't make an important purchase without some personal hands-on time. It's just a matter of how much risk you're able to absorb if it doesn't work out, and everyone is different there.

Also don't follow Surface products, but was under the impression the "desktop" version was totally new, as was the dial? That's a big hardware upgrade, especially for the "moving parts" aspect.

I DO get your point about not changing visual focus, and see the value of the "dial" for that reason alone! And I DO see the appeal of this approach as long as you are able to "do Windows", which not every designer is keen on. I also think it's important for the Apple world to have STRONG competition - everyone wins when there are choices and competition IMO.

I am sorry. My point was just that she has demo'ed it. The Surface Studio meets her current needs. It may not for others. She shifted from Apple when Jobs became more concerned with iProducts than Mac Pro's. This has sadly accelerated under Cook. Windows 10 has been quite smooth for both of us. We have it configured for maximum privacy, and it has been very stable. I have only one machine that has been 'iffy' and it was a six year old 1st gen i7 that had been running 7 all that time. The upgrade was not very smooth and there were hidden driver issues and application conflicts that took a bit of effort but not much to get ironed out. Now there are no problems at all.

Yes, the 'desktop' is new but the guts are much like a Mac Mini. They are based on other designs from the Book and the Surface tablets. It is also just a fairly standard PC - embedded 4GB Nvidia graphics, GB's of memory, and i7 CPU. The display is what is important and it seems to rival the Cintiq. Microsoft has a winner here and definitely is competing for the pro space against Apple who seems to have abandoned it, for now.

I am rather agnostic when it comes to OS's. I have used everything from Pro Dos on IIe to Solaris to Openstep to Linux, Windows, and classic Mac OS and OS X. I code on Linux and Mac. I do audio on Linux, Mac, and Windows. And I do photography work exclusively on Windows.

My "creative" side doesn't like learning multiple environments, as it slows me down. The few times I have to work on a windows machine things grind to a crawl for me! Same for mix automation - after so much time on the SSL I couldn't work on other systems. Also why I stick to Reason. Back when MIDI sequencers were all the rage (80s-90s) my initial plan was to get them all and used each for what it was best at. Turns out, it made more sense (for me) to focus on one and get work done. It's the same approach Eno suggests for synths, and why guitarists often stick to one model.

I do appreciate folks smarter than me can move more elegantly across multiple platforms, but I'm probably too old to learn new platforms - I already spend too much time learning new tools (for software development and UI design) and can't afford another variable!

But that's just me (and age/habit). Also, at my age I'm more focused on trying to leave a body of work rather than expand my tool set!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I am in my early 50's. I think it is just somewhat innate for me and how I was raised. My father was an English and Linguistics prof who could read and/or speak about a dozen languages. My mother was also a an English professor. Her side of the family had the musical ability so by the time I was ten I was already playing the piano, French Horn, violin, accordion, and sang in the church choir (which she conducted). I love tech and grew up with computers. My father's best friend at the campus was the computer science department head. I was just a boy but loved writing a punch card tic tac toe program on the mainframe.

I agree in many ways. I used to be strictly hardware until about ten years ago. I explored all the major DAW's and eventually settled into Reason & Live being the two I know and use the most often. I can get around in Studio One, Pro Tools, and FL Studio, but I rarely use them at all. I started out an Apple guy (II was my first) but shifted to Linux and Windows more in the 1990's and early 2000's. I was still pretty active around the classic to X transition and even wrote a few online courses for Apple on Aqua, Carbon, and Cocoa. Day to day and for pro audio/video I am more comfortable and productive on Windows. I got back into photography about 10 years ago and I prefer Olympus micro 4/3's over everything else.

I think we had it easier then to follow Eno's advice. At first it was all subtractive for the most part. It was just a matter of deciding which synths we liked the most after mastering how the synthesis method. I preferred Roland synths while my best friend was a Yamaha guy. As new methods emerged, I sought to master the technique and then decide on the synths. I always preferred Casio's take on FM more so than Yamaha or Korg. The same for wave synthesis, additive, and even sampling. I felt the most comfortable on productive on Emu and Ensoniq samplers thought I had friends who swore by Kurzweil and Akai. These days the staggering amount of virtual synths that can do five or more different synth methods is overwhelming and relatively 'cheap' to invest in. Hell it too me decades to build a hardware synth, sampler, and effects studio. It took me less than a decade to buy more synths, samplers, and effects than I will likely ever use on the computer!

I think we all gravitate to what works and feels the best for us. Sometimes that changes. Sometimes it is does not.

[selig]

* The bad news is that it's about 3000 dollars/2750 euros. Ouch.

For a design professional, this is quite reasonable. Cintiq's alone are thousands of dollars and this is a computer/Cintiq combination.

My partner is a graphic designer and professional artists. She will be getting one when they are released. It is a business write-off.

Are you sure she won't want to have some hands-on time with this before committing to a purchase?
Even though it's a business write-off, it still needs to meet her needs if it's to be a USEFUL tool IMO.
Or maybe she's already seen one in action at a trade show?

BTW, my designer partner and friends are definitely interested in this!
Wonder why the big metal dial instead of a gesture to accomplish the same thing? (maybe I don't totally understand it's function…)

Yes, she has seen it in action and is sold on it usefulness for her. She was already ready to invest in a Cintiq and an upgrade to her current system. Surface Studio allows her to basically get both together in a single unit at a great price. Her main applications are Painter, Maya, and Blender. Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. are secondary ones for her.

From what she shared with me, the Surface dial (I believe it is called) allows with one hand to adjust specific parameters at the same time that the other hand is not disturbed from continuing its work. So for example, she sets the dial to control paint brush size. She can then be in Painter sketching and place the dial anywhere on the screen and adjust the size on the fly so she can vary the strokes. Another use might be perspective in a 3D city model for instance. She can dial in and out of the model with out interrupting her workflow as gesture often do. The ergonomics seem to be very good as well.

I can understand a pen/pencil, since many artists know how to use it. But gestures could easily replace this dial, as you describe it. You can have 2-3 fingers control the same thing as the dial, I would think. There's no advantage to a dial as there is to a pen (as I described above), so it's another expense and something else to break/loose and rely on. There's also probably only one source for the dial, but you can get alternate pen controllers for any system.

Anyway, I'd hope she can return it if it's not working for her needs - 1st gen hardware/software can be a batch, and seeing a demo would never convince me to make a big investment. Imaging getting the Slate Raven after seeing a demo only?


It's got to not only work, but work FOR YOU. And I CAN write this stuff off, and still don't feel it's "for me".

The dial is just another tool. Some like swiping which does require shifting your gaze from one place on the screen to another whereas the dial does not.

I really wouldn't call this 1st gen hardware. The guts are the same as the entire Surface line as it has evolved and corrected itself. She already uses a Surface Pro 2 and was considering an upgrade to the Surface Book before demo'ing the Studio. I trust her judgement on this as she's been in computer aided design since the Mac IIfx era.

My comments have nothing to do with how long you've been professionally employed - I've been an audio engineer for over 30 years (same as my GF designer) starting with a Mac 512(!) and wouldn't make an important purchase without some personal hands-on time. It's just a matter of how much risk you're able to absorb if it doesn't work out, and everyone is different there.

Also don't follow Surface products, but was under the impression the "desktop" version was totally new, as was the dial? That's a big hardware upgrade, especially for the "moving parts" aspect.

I DO get your point about not changing visual focus, and see the value of the "dial" for that reason alone! And I DO see the appeal of this approach as long as you are able to "do Windows", which not every designer is keen on. I also think it's important for the Apple world to have STRONG competition - everyone wins when there are choices and competition IMO.

I am sorry. My point was just that she has demo'ed it. The Surface Studio meets her current needs. It may not for others. She shifted from Apple when Jobs became more concerned with iProducts than Mac Pro's. This has sadly accelerated under Cook. Windows 10 has been quite smooth for both of us. We have it configured for maximum privacy, and it has been very stable. I have only one machine that has been 'iffy' and it was a six year old 1st gen i7 that had been running 7 all that time. The upgrade was not very smooth and there were hidden driver issues and application conflicts that took a bit of effort but not much to get ironed out. Now there are no problems at all.

Yes, the 'desktop' is new but the guts are much like a Mac Mini. They are based on other designs from the Book and the Surface tablets. It is also just a fairly standard PC - embedded 4GB Nvidia graphics, GB's of memory, and i7 CPU. The display is what is important and it seems to rival the Cintiq. Microsoft has a winner here and definitely is competing for the pro space against Apple who seems to have abandoned it, for now.

I am rather agnostic when it comes to OS's. I have used everything from Pro Dos on IIe to Solaris to Openstep to Linux, Windows, and classic Mac OS and OS X. I code on Linux and Mac. I do audio on Linux, Mac, and Windows. And I do photography work exclusively on Windows.

My "creative" side doesn't like learning multiple environments, as it slows me down. The few times I have to work on a windows machine things grind to a crawl for me! Same for mix automation - after so much time on the SSL I couldn't work on other systems. Also why I stick to Reason. Back when MIDI sequencers were all the rage (80s-90s) my initial plan was to get them all and used each for what it was best at. Turns out, it made more sense (for me) to focus on one and get work done. It's the same approach Eno suggests for synths, and why guitarists often stick to one model.

I do appreciate folks smarter than me can move more elegantly across multiple platforms, but I'm probably too old to learn new platforms - I already spend too much time learning new tools (for software development and UI design) and can't afford another variable!

But that's just me (and age/habit). Also, at my age I'm more focused on trying to leave a body of work rather than expand my tool set!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I am in my early 50's. I think it is just somewhat innate for me and how I was raised. My father was an English and Linguistics prof who could read and/or speak about a dozen languages. My mother was also a an English professor. Her side of the family had the musical ability so by the time I was ten I was already playing the piano, French Horn, violin, accordion, and sang in the church choir (which she conducted). I love tech and grew up with computers. My father's best friend at the campus was the computer science department head. I was just a boy but loved writing a punch card tic tac toe program on the mainframe.

I agree in many ways. I used to be strictly hardware until about ten years ago. I explored all the major DAW's and eventually settled into Reason & Live being the two I know and use the most often. I can get around in Studio One, Pro Tools, and FL Studio, but I rarely use them at all. I started out an Apple guy (II was my first) but shifted to Linux and Windows more in the 1990's and early 2000's. I was still pretty active around the classic to X transition and even wrote a few online courses for Apple on Aqua, Carbon, and Cocoa. Day to day and for pro audio/video I am more comfortable and productive on Windows. I got back into photography about 10 years ago and I prefer Olympus micro 4/3's over everything else.

I think we had it easier then to follow Eno's advice. At first it was all subtractive for the most part. It was just a matter of deciding which synths we liked the most after mastering how the synthesis method. I preferred Roland synths while my best friend was a Yamaha guy. As new methods emerged, I sought to master the technique and then decide on the synths. I always preferred Casio's take on FM more so than Yamaha or Korg. The same for wave synthesis, additive, and even sampling. I felt the most comfortable on productive on Emu and Ensoniq samplers thought I had friends who swore by Kurzweil and Akai. These days the staggering amount of virtual synths that can do five or more different synth methods is overwhelming and relatively 'cheap' to invest in. Hell it too me decades to build a hardware synth, sampler, and effects studio. It took me less than a decade to buy more synths, samplers, and effects than I will likely ever use on the computer!

I think we all gravitate to what works and feels the best for us. Sometimes that changes. Sometimes it is does not.

Dude, we could have been brothers - I won't bore you with my history, but it's very similar to yours. But that's only half the equation when considering nurture vs nature!

[16BitBear]

[quote="eiresurfer"]* The bad news is that it's about 3000 dollars/2750 euros. Ouch.

For a design professional, this is quite reasonable. Cintiq's alone are thousands of dollars and this is a computer/Cintiq combination.

My partner is a graphic designer and professional artists. She will be getting one when they are released. It is a business write-off.

Are you sure she won't want to have some hands-on time with this before committing to a purchase?
Even though it's a business write-off, it still needs to meet her needs if it's to be a USEFUL tool IMO.
Or maybe she's already seen one in action at a trade show?

BTW, my designer partner and friends are definitely interested in this!
Wonder why the big metal dial instead of a gesture to accomplish the same thing? (maybe I don't totally understand it's function…)

Yes, she has seen it in action and is sold on it usefulness for her. She was already ready to invest in a Cintiq and an upgrade to her current system. Surface Studio allows her to basically get both together in a single unit at a great price. Her main applications are Painter, Maya, and Blender. Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. are secondary ones for her.

From what she shared with me, the Surface dial (I believe it is called) allows with one hand to adjust specific parameters at the same time that the other hand is not disturbed from continuing its work. So for example, she sets the dial to control paint brush size. She can then be in Painter sketching and place the dial anywhere on the screen and adjust the size on the fly so she can vary the strokes. Another use might be perspective in a 3D city model for instance. She can dial in and out of the model with out interrupting her workflow as gesture often do. The ergonomics seem to be very good as well.

I can understand a pen/pencil, since many artists know how to use it. But gestures could easily replace this dial, as you describe it. You can have 2-3 fingers control the same thing as the dial, I would think. There's no advantage to a dial as there is to a pen (as I described above), so it's another expense and something else to break/loose and rely on. There's also probably only one source for the dial, but you can get alternate pen controllers for any system.

Anyway, I'd hope she can return it if it's not working for her needs - 1st gen hardware/software can be a batch, and seeing a demo would never convince me to make a big investment. Imaging getting the Slate Raven after seeing a demo only?


It's got to not only work, but work FOR YOU. And I CAN write this stuff off, and still don't feel it's "for me".

The dial is just another tool. Some like swiping which does require shifting your gaze from one place on the screen to another whereas the dial does not.

I really wouldn't call this 1st gen hardware. The guts are the same as the entire Surface line as it has evolved and corrected itself. She already uses a Surface Pro 2 and was considering an upgrade to the Surface Book before demo'ing the Studio. I trust her judgement on this as she's been in computer aided design since the Mac IIfx era.

My comments have nothing to do with how long you've been professionally employed - I've been an audio engineer for over 30 years (same as my GF designer) starting with a Mac 512(!) and wouldn't make an important purchase without some personal hands-on time. It's just a matter of how much risk you're able to absorb if it doesn't work out, and everyone is different there.

Also don't follow Surface products, but was under the impression the "desktop" version was totally new, as was the dial? That's a big hardware upgrade, especially for the "moving parts" aspect.

I DO get your point about not changing visual focus, and see the value of the "dial" for that reason alone! And I DO see the appeal of this approach as long as you are able to "do Windows", which not every designer is keen on. I also think it's important for the Apple world to have STRONG competition - everyone wins when there are choices and competition IMO.

I am sorry. My point was just that she has demo'ed it. The Surface Studio meets her current needs. It may not for others. She shifted from Apple when Jobs became more concerned with iProducts than Mac Pro's. This has sadly accelerated under Cook. Windows 10 has been quite smooth for both of us. We have it configured for maximum privacy, and it has been very stable. I have only one machine that has been 'iffy' and it was a six year old 1st gen i7 that had been running 7 all that time. The upgrade was not very smooth and there were hidden driver issues and application conflicts that took a bit of effort but not much to get ironed out. Now there are no problems at all.

Yes, the 'desktop' is new but the guts are much like a Mac Mini. They are based on other designs from the Book and the Surface tablets. It is also just a fairly standard PC - embedded 4GB Nvidia graphics, GB's of memory, and i7 CPU. The display is what is important and it seems to rival the Cintiq. Microsoft has a winner here and definitely is competing for the pro space against Apple who seems to have abandoned it, for now.

I am rather agnostic when it comes to OS's. I have used everything from Pro Dos on IIe to Solaris to Openstep to Linux, Windows, and classic Mac OS and OS X. I code on Linux and Mac. I do audio on Linux, Mac, and Windows. And I do photography work exclusively on Windows.

My "creative" side doesn't like learning multiple environments, as it slows me down. The few times I have to work on a windows machine things grind to a crawl for me! Same for mix automation - after so much time on the SSL I couldn't work on other systems. Also why I stick to Reason. Back when MIDI sequencers were all the rage (80s-90s) my initial plan was to get them all and used each for what it was best at. Turns out, it made more sense (for me) to focus on one and get work done. It's the same approach Eno suggests for synths, and why guitarists often stick to one model.

I do appreciate folks smarter than me can move more elegantly across multiple platforms, but I'm probably too old to learn new platforms - I already spend too much time learning new tools (for software development and UI design) and can't afford another variable!

But that's just me (and age/habit). Also, at my age I'm more focused on trying to leave a body of work rather than expand my tool set!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I am in my early 50's. I think it is just somewhat innate for me and how I was raised. My father was an English and Linguistics prof who could read and/or speak about a dozen languages. My mother was also a an English professor. Her side of the family had the musical ability so by the time I was ten I was already playing the piano, French Horn, violin, accordion, and sang in the church choir (which she conducted). I love tech and grew up with computers. My father's best friend at the campus was the computer science department head. I was just a boy but loved writing a punch card tic tac toe program on the mainframe.

I agree in many ways. I used to be strictly hardware until about ten years ago. I explored all the major DAW's and eventually settled into Reason & Live being the two I know and use the most often. I can get around in Studio One, Pro Tools, and FL Studio, but I rarely use them at all. I started out an Apple guy (II was my first) but shifted to Linux and Windows more in the 1990's and early 2000's. I was still pretty active around the classic to X transition and even wrote a few online courses for Apple on Aqua, Carbon, and Cocoa. Day to day and for pro audio/video I am more comfortable and productive on Windows. I got back into photography about 10 years ago and I prefer Olympus micro 4/3's over everything else.

I think we had it easier then to follow Eno's advice. At first it was all subtractive for the most part. It was just a matter of deciding which synths we liked the most after mastering how the synthesis method. I preferred Roland synths while my best friend was a Yamaha guy. As new methods emerged, I sought to master the technique and then decide on the synths. I always preferred Casio's take on FM more so than Yamaha or Korg. The same for wave synthesis, additive, and even sampling. I felt the most comfortable on productive on Emu and Ensoniq samplers thought I had friends who swore by Kurzweil and Akai. These days the staggering amount of virtual synths that can do five or more different synth methods is overwhelming and relatively 'cheap' to invest in. Hell it too me decades to build a hardware synth, sampler, and effects studio. It took me less than a decade to buy more synths, samplers, and effects than I will likely ever use on the computer!

I think we all gravitate to what works and feels the best for us. Sometimes that changes. Sometimes it is does not.

Dude, we could have been brothers - I won't bore you with my history, but it's very similar to yours. But that's only half the equation when considering nurture vs nature!
[/quote]

Some day you can bore me.

I was a psychologist for over 25 years. I agree.

Great chatting with you.

[michal22]

Good move Microsoft's. In my opinion it presented itself this year, much better than Apple. Large folding touch screen (cool for SSL) and knob to operate without taking your eyes. Looks cool. I wonder how this works in practice.