The killing blow has been delivered

[Raveshaper]

First there was this.

Then this.

Then this thing.

And now, this.

I have to say it, I think I'm done. As in officially, last word, retired from my crusades.
I'm not going to beat myself up re-inventing the wheel and try to scientifically patch a tire that is not so much flat as it is a few tattered scraps of tired, worn out rubber that can't be inflated. These guys are flying around through hyperspace, having left the concept of "wheels" far behind them in the distant past.

My god, what I could do with that kind of immediacy and hands-on productivity. Just look at Push 2. More than just the hardware, look at the forward thinking, the innovation, the attempts of doing something new that exceeds mere customer requests. Look at the engagement with the product and the progression of techniques and tools. It's thriving. It's living. It gets me excited.

It took me three to six months to come up with a wonky and highly flawed way to distort audio, but in Live 9.5 it's not just included, it can be played like a keyboard while retaining proper tempo in real time. I could go on and on for hours. Seriously. That's it.

I have surfed the outer rim of what's possible in Reason, I have attempted and accomplished things that no one else has, I have vacillated enough on this point already and I simply can't deny it anymore. This platform is not the right place for me. That is full stop, end of story. I will still try my hand at developing as and when, but I'll do it where I can be a part of a thriving future that is filled with signs of life.

It'll be a case of too little too late, perhaps, but I'll finish out my run here with promotion of my work once its completed. Then, that's it.
Just felt like sharing how I felt in response to the Push 2 demo, and to sort of explain why I won't be seen as often (and eventually not at all).

[gak]

Whew, I had a dream that a bunch of products that didn't perform up to my standards was being delivered as the "reason killer"

Wait........

Ok, I've spent ALL THE money, and bitwig is a joke. Studio one is also a joke (both have CPU issues from hell) and then live, which "maybe" is good now, but in the 2 and 1/2 years I used it, was mostly "meh" and though stable, M4L was a joke, and when I finally shelled for push, they completely STOPPED developing it.

Dream? Nightmare? I smell a shill.

[normen]

...and in the time I integrated Bitwig with Reaktor and Push I installed Reason, made some music, had a coffee break and broke my calluses on the fingers three times But sure, whatever floats your boat, these days I'm pretty much done with hunting for the latest and greatest amp sim, DAW or other software or hardware controller and just use what I know to be productive If one of the new things is really game changing it will come to other platforms as well, be implemented in other versions etc. - I'll let others find out if thats really the case and enjoy whats coming from it when it matured

[mcatalao]

About push 2, I guess it might seem breaking for some genres and live performances.
I don't really know in what my kind of music would gain from it.

And for the other things you showed (studio one, bitwig, and reaktor) i didn't see a single unique thing that would make me leave Reason at this moment. I mean, most of the things the videos showed are super fast mingling of normal daw tasks, or building a new synth from base building blocks (again, very fast) with a different presentation. Stuff you can do with reason since always.

Anyway, if you leave, i wish you the best!
Cheers!

[jonheal]

First there was this ... I have to say it, I think I'm done. As in officially, last word, retired from my crusades.
I'm not going to beat myself up re-inventing the wheel and try to scientifically patch a tire that is not so much flat as it is a few tattered scraps of tired, worn out rubber that can't be inflated. These guys are flying around through hyperspace, having left the concept of "wheels" far behind them in the distant past.

My god, what I could do with that kind of immediacy and hands-on productivity. Just look at Push 2. More than just the hardware, look at the forward thinking, the innovation, the attempts of doing something new that exceeds mere customer requests. Look at the engagement with the product and the progression of techniques and tools. It's thriving. It's living. It gets me excited.

It took me three to six months to come up with a wonky and highly flawed way to distort audio, but in Live 9.5 it's not just included, it can be played like a keyboard while retaining proper tempo in real time. I could go on and on for hours. Seriously. That's it.

I have surfed the outer rim of what's possible in Reason, I have attempted and accomplished things that no one else has, I have vacillated enough on this point already and I simply can't deny it anymore. This platform is not the right place for me. That is full stop, end of story. I will still try my hand at developing as and when, but I'll do it where I can be a part of a thriving future that is filled with signs of life.

It'll be a case of too little too late, perhaps, but I'll finish out my run here with promotion of my work once its completed. Then, that's it.
Just felt like sharing how I felt in response to the Push 2 demo, and to sort of explain why I won't be seen as often (and eventually not at all).

It seems to me that you are anthropomorphising the products, themselves. Live is no more "living" than a stone. It's the jamoke pushing the buttons that's the living part, yes?

But yeah, If Live and the new Push better fit the way you're wired, then that's the way to go.

[Jagwah]

I haven't dabbled much in other DAWs, I used a few when I went to cool school and have barely touched them besides that. I have spent a huge amount of time in Reason and created my own and unique ways to get music and sounds happening, methods that I expand on constantly while their usefulness grows. It's that damn CV routing system, all the other DAWs can eat me, they got nothing, I don't care how 'similar' they think they are with their funny drawn lines connecting an LFO box to a filter box or how cool a controller looks because it has 1000 little square buttons. The time I spent in Reason has afforded me a fluent workflow I'm not interested in compromising. It's so much more than that though, so, so much more.

That being said, I hate how there is advancing DAW technology out there and god damn innovation happening while Props are off in fairy land with what seems like the entirety of their manpower focused on phone apps or better noob access in Reason. Why not make Reason as kick ass as possible? It sucks balls, and I'm guessing there's a long long wait before some serious sh*t starts happening in Reason again, like back in the day when a Reason upgrade was one hell of an exciting, inspirational ride.

Now with that being said, I can hang back on Reason 7 indefinitely, no problem at all.

Rant over. @ OP: I understand your patience has been taken for granted like many around here, but I'm sure there are good reasons why you are here. Don't fly the coop in haste, things will turn eventually.

[Tumble]

Push 2 does look more like an instrument than a simple MIDI controller, so Ableton is definitely on to something.

However, no one is forcing you to use a single DAW. Apples and oranges, init.

[pjeudy]

@Raveshaper.... I hear you !

[jonheal]

Still, as I've said before, comparing Live 9.5 + Push to Reason is comparing a $400 system with a $1,400 system. Is that even a remotely useful comparison?

NO!

(And yes, if you are going to compare Live with Reason, you need to compare Live Suite, not Live Standard, as Live Standard is pretty well stripped of instruments.)

... unless you think Propellerhead should offer everything Ableton offers at a third the price!? Or unless you are willing to spend $1,400 on Reason, and I'm not.

[Ostermilk]

Thanks for sharing.

Isn't it great that we all have so much capable stuff to make our own individual choices from?

Here's hoping that the killing blow hasn't caused you any long-term ill effects.

[CharlyCharlzz]

LOL , 4 programs that are horrible !
Push 2 would be cool on stand alone but no !!! got to buy the latest version of Live to go with it ....and live is weird
Bitwig is funny but nothing impressive with it ,
Studio one is pretty good but I dont like the interface & sequencer .
Reactor 6 is not bad at all but cables look crap and you stuck inside only one synth with patching wich really suck LOL

[Tumble]

Still, as I've said before, comparing Live 9.5 + Push to Reason is comparing a $400 system with a $1,400 system. Is that even a remotely useful comparison?

NO!

(And yes, if you are going to compare Live with Reason, you need to compare Live Suite, not Live Standard, as Live Standard is pretty well stripped of instruments.)

... unless you think Propellerhead should offer everything Ableton offers at a third the price!? Or unless you are willing to spend $1,400 on Reason, and I'm not.

A better comparison, I think, would be UVI Falcon. That plugin is basically Reason on steroids, minus the sequencer.

[jonheal]

A better comparison, I think, would be UVI Falcon. That plugin is basically Reason on steroids, minus the sequencer.

I'd heard of Falcon, but knew nothing about it. It certainly does have a lot of goodies, doesn't it.

[tronam]

I regularly work in multiple music making environments, but I'm generally more productive in Reason because it seems to tickle my brain in uniquely creative ways. Everyone's process is different though, so go for whatever fuels that ever elusive inspiration. Thankfully it doesn't have to be an either/or proposition.

[pjeudy]

Reactor 6 is not bad at all but cables look crap and you stuck inside only one synth with patching wich really suck LOL

I know your being light hearted Charly there's nothing wrong being stuck inside Reaktor
...these two awesome sounding synth bellow actually sound nothing alike! And they are both stuck inside of Reaktor. Oh and the 2 vastly different GUI are also stuck inside Reaktor...now that's powerful, Most you can do with combinators is apply a new skin . (No...I didn't forget about CV routing in combinators)


The modulation/routing Properties of REAKTOR are MAGNITUDES deeper then of REASON...not because it's better, but it was built that way for that task.

[Rook]

Reaktor does look super cool. I've been really tempted lately to get Maschine just to jam and come up with weird loops and sequences to drag/drop into Reason. Looks like a lot of fun and integrates really well with all the snazzy NI stuff.

I like getting out of Reason occasionally to try different stuff. But I can't see myself leaving it altogether any time soon.

Sent from my D6616 using Tapatalk

[CharlyCharlzz]

Reactor 6 is not bad at all but cables look crap and you stuck inside only one synth with patching wich really suck LOL

I know your being light hearted Charly there's nothing wrong being stuck inside Reaktor
...these two awesome sounding synth bellow actually sound nothing alike! And they are both stuck inside of Reaktor. Oh and the 2 vastly different GUI are also stuck inside Reaktor...now that's powerful, Most you can do with combinators is apply a new skin . (No...I didn't forget about CV routing in combinators)


The modulation/routing Properties of REAKTOR are MAGNITUDES deeper then of REASON...not because it's better, but it was built that way for that task.

I know it is a great synth and a lot more but I am totaly addicted to the rack environement.

[decibel]

i often wonder if the people who are never quite content with their daws are actually making any decent music at all ? there seems to be plenty who are getting along with things just fine despite lacking every single function ever invented included in their functioning setup

[gak]

i often wonder if the people who are never quite content with their daws are actually making any decent music at all ? there seems to be plenty who are getting along with things just fine despite lacking every single function ever invented included in their functioning setup

I don't know if you'd call it "decent" but I make music all the time, even when I WASN'T content.

It's tough to find something you like. In case anyone cares, my nightmare for several years was more about shit not working than features that were missing. I'm in the mood to gab, so buckle your seatbelt

For years it was reaper for me. Whiners be damned, it was stable, it did what I needed it to, and they updated it constantly. Then two OOOPSIES happened: 1) I wanted to use the 3rd party "all quantize" tool like studio one and it kept crashing. And that guy never updated the problem and THEY (reaper) stopped updating all the time. This started a tail-spin.....

Then for quite some time I was in DAW depression. I tried anything/everything and basically chased my tail. Ableton was pretty cool, but it's SO REMEDIAL with audio (audio editors are destructive and really don't work well with it). Bitwig was a crash/bug fest, sonar was CRASH CRASH CRASH, studio one was the CPU spike from hell....I was JUST ABOUT at the end of my rope and....

Discovered Reason last January. I guess at my age, I give no fucks about all the features I'm missing and just want to make music for whatever time I have left on this god-forsaken rock. It's an attitude, you can't complain about how crashy/problematic/buggy reason is so the other stuff I'd like to see changed just isn't a real thing. I mention that stuff, there is a long list of things I'd like to see changed (the kuassa creme thing being the most crucial, and they are DRAGGING on it) but now I just use the firehawk, done. (forget amp sims, over it!)

[phasys]

OP certainly has a point. It's simple, Reason is not tailored towards electronic music composers. Sure, it can be used for that (and effectively) but it's not made with that group in mind. That's where the big difference is with Ableton or Bitwig. Reason is tailored towards the hands on realtime recording musician. Not someone who wants to program beats and sequences. It lacks the most basic things for that purpose.

Reason is still cool though. Such a shame that they made such a hideous mess with Reason 8. I'll stick with 7 for as long as I can.

[decibel]

OP certainly has a point. It's simple, Reason is not tailored towards electronic music composers. Sure, it can be used for that (and effectively) but it's not made with that group in mind. That's where the big difference is with Ableton or Bitwig. Reason is tailored towards the hands on realtime recording musician. Not someone who wants to program beats and sequences. It lacks the most basic things for that purpose.

Reason is still cool though. Such a shame that they made such a hideous mess with Reason 8. I'll stick with 7 for as long as I can.

as i dont use bit wig or abelton im just curious what key features they both have that make them better for electronic music production over using reason ?
this is a serious question yeah, im just trying to gain some awareness about both of those products and what advantages they potentially have over reason for electronic production ? if you could give some examples it would much appreciated man

[freeQlow]

Put a real synthesizer in your hands, come over to the darkside.

[selig]

OP certainly has a point. It's simple, Reason is not tailored towards electronic music composers. Sure, it can be used for that (and effectively) but it's not made with that group in mind. That's where the big difference is with Ableton or Bitwig. Reason is tailored towards the hands on realtime recording musician. Not someone who wants to program beats and sequences. It lacks the most basic things for that purpose.

Reason is still cool though. Such a shame that they made such a hideous mess with Reason 8. I'll stick with 7 for as long as I can.

Then someone needs to get the word out to all the "hands on realtime recording musicians". Reason is seen by them (the folks I've worked with all my life) exactly as ideal for programming beats (ReDrum, Dr Octarex, Kong) and sequences (Matrix, Thor, etc.). Maybe you could argue Reason lacks the most "advanced" things for that purpose, but certainly not the most basic things for that purpose, as this is the legacy of Reason!

From my view, Reason lacks the most basic things for the "hands on realtime recording musicians" such as auto punch in/out, delay compensation, Melodyne or Autotune integration, mixer hardware support, super low latency hardware based recording (like Pro Tools), full automation support - I could go on…

To each their own though - use what works for you and don't get too hung up on how something is being marketed.

[freeQlow]

I have had more fun with reason than anything else.
It is my go to

[pjeudy]

Reactor 6 is not bad at all but cables look crap and you stuck inside only one synth with patching wich really suck LOL

I know your being light hearted Charly there's nothing wrong being stuck inside Reaktor
...these two awesome sounding synth bellow actually sound nothing alike! And they are both stuck inside of Reaktor. Oh and the 2 vastly different GUI are also stuck inside Reaktor...now that's powerful, Most you can do with combinators is apply a new skin . (No...I didn't forget about CV routing in combinators)
http://createdigitalmusic.com/files/201 ... 40x268.jpg
http://payload152.cargocollective.com/1 ... azor_3.jpg
The modulation/routing Properties of REAKTOR are MAGNITUDES deeper then of REASON...not because it's better, but it was built that way for that task.

I know it is a great synth and a lot more but I am totaly addicted to the rack environement.

I like REASON but I'm not addicted to the Rack Environment, If I was I would be limiting my self (I like to feed my mind with Audio tech)...By opening my self to other devices, I get to explore and experienced what other developers in the world have in mind or have to offer in the world of synthesis...For example it's as if I would say, the only Synthesizer or drum devices I will buy has to only come from ROLAND...never mind Moog,Prophet,Norlead and what those guys came up with etc...

Also to me it's not "all" about making better music ..yea..it's NOT ! it's for the love of Sounds..and sound designing and sound manipulation. I liked sounds before REASON was even a thought. When I lived in the city, I used to hang My mic outside my building window..and capture the sound of the city,environment Rain,thunder etc.... Propellerhead wasn't even a company yet.
I have been REASON only for to long, I've forgotten about getting sound elements from other sources other (then samples) for the love of the sound..Not for dedication to a software company's.

Some people talk as if using other software with Reason is too much work ...which is kinda, slightly, on a very small level..LAZY thinking!
It's not like your connecting external hardware running cables that are getting caught under your chair....it's all in one screen..the most heavy lifting comes from moving your mouse How do your get vocals,guitars into REASON ? with external devices attache by long cables,power cords,power switch....no?